Full Written Transcript of The Episode

The 3 Stages of a Relationship

Speaker1: Curiosity, enlightenment and commitment. We all want those prospects to commit to us in the end. And just like any relationship where you get committed, you have to go through the three stages of any relationship curiosity, enlightenment, commitment.

We’re going to cover those today on this episode of Midwest Mindset and why this shit matters.

Hello and welcome back to Midwest.

Speaker1: Mindset, the podcast that makes marketing easy to understand and simple to do. I’m Matt Tompkins, your host of Two Brothers Creative, where we are making your marketing easy with the Easy Box. That’s why we named it the Easy Box. It’s almost as easy as me, ladies and gentlemen.

Yes, the easy box is where you give us 30 minutes. We give you 30 days of content. The link to get started for free now is in the show notes. All right, without further ado, we got to introduce the two brothers. The crew. Oh, yeah. Yes! Oh, yes. Couple dudes.

Speaker2: Couple of guys, couple of dudes. Couple of dudes in here on the couch hanging out.

Speaker1: I’m just a man standing in front of a girl holding a sign that I’m in love with or whatever. Yeah. What’s. Did you do that? No, I’ve never done that. We have Myron McHugh.

He looks like the kind of guy who is a Civil War reenactor. Yes, and he will constantly argue it was all about states rights. I think that’s the type of he.

Speaker2: Says it was about states rights more than people probably should. And he won’t let it go.

Speaker1: He really clings to it. He’s that he’s that kind of guy. We’re not saying Myron is that guy. He just looks.

Speaker2: Like that guy.

Speaker1: He looks like that kind of guy.

Speaker3: He does look like the guy in every single, like, old Western documentary. Yeah, I watched one on wild Bill Hillcock. I swear he showed up a couple times. He’s in the.

Speaker1: Background. Yeah. Next up, the voice you’re just hearing there, or seeing Austin Anderson, who looks like the kind of guy who, you know, you remind me of if the guy from Miami Vice, if he never went to Hollywood and never got into acting and just lived a normal, healthy, balanced life, that would be you.

Speaker2: That’s a compliment. Yeah.

Speaker1: It is. It’s a compliment. And Ben Tompkins, the other brother you would be. You remind me of Tubbs a lot. I always think you and Tubbs. Yeah. From Miami, from Miami Vice.

Speaker2: Tubbs.

Speaker1: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker2: I’m not going to lie. I have not seen that show. Oh, I know of it. Okay. And they never seen an episode. Yeah. Colin Farrell, is that Zac Efron? Is that what you’re saying?

Speaker1: Yes. You look like the kind of guy who brings up Zac Efron randomly in conversations at an alarming rate. Which is true.

Speaker2: I am that guy.

Speaker1: You are that guy.

Speaker2: You are that man.

Speaker1: All right. In today’s episode of Midwest Mindset, we are talking about the three stages of any relationship and I mean any. So this is like your personal relationships with your friends, your intimate relationships with your lovers, your family relationships, your work relationships, and yes, most importantly, what’s feeding the family? Well, you’re buying food. You buy food by making money from your business.

Yes, business relationships and sales, closing those sales. And it is important. I’d say it’s crucial to know how these three stages of any relationship work, because in the end, we’re trying to take people from, I don’t know who you are. I just discovered you to let’s hop into bed together, let’s go to Vegas.

Let’s get married in the business sense. You know, where they’re, you know, a paying client of yours. So we’re going to walk you through these three steps today. All right. So and I would like you guys today because both of you are married still I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker2: Yes. As far as I know.

Speaker1: And Austin, you’ve been married the longest I think. Yeah. Out of all of us.

Speaker3: Yeah. 17 years.

Speaker2: That’s a, that’s a bit. That’s a while. How are you doing, buddy. Yeah.

Speaker1: Is what that is.

Speaker3: That is a stint.

Speaker1: Yes.

Speaker2: And you seem to be okay. You have good flesh tone. Yeah.

Speaker3: Yeah, it’s it’s remarkable. We lived in a camper together for 617 days.

Speaker2: And if you can survive that, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah, you’re in it for the long haul.

Speaker1: The farts alone. Oh, and a self-enclosed place. A space like that would be.

Speaker3: Let’s just say you always know when someone’s going to the bathroom.

Speaker2: Yes, I feel like that’s a lot of what marriage is, is just.

Speaker1: Bad smells.

Speaker2: Hearing one another. Pee.

Speaker1: Yeah, yeah. We have very thin walls in our bathrooms are on top of each other. And yeah.

Speaker3: Bathrooms should be in like a separate wing of the house. There’s almost like a little corridor to it.

Speaker1: I am the kind of guy though. I like to sit when I pee. I find it’s more relaxing. I think it’s a little bit better on your your body, you know, and there’s not any, you know, mess that comes with normally when dudes are standing and just, you know, letting I like to.

Speaker3: Pull my pants all the way down while I stand at the urinal. Yeah.

Speaker2: Saw that the other day. Austin I walked into the bathroom here at work and it was not. It was about I wasn’t pleasantly surprised. I was surprised.

Speaker3: Trying to break that habit since I was eight.

Speaker1: Sometimes I just squat in my shower. That’s what I’ll do. So. So I would say my tinkling is probably not as noisy as the normal guy, but these are the things you have to learn to live with when you’re in a long term relationship. You know when you’re in a committed relationship before you each get committed.

And so the first step of any relationship, and I want you guys to tell maybe a little bit about your how you piqued the curiosity of your mate, because that’s what it’s all about. It’s getting their attention.

Right. So first impression, that first impression that grabs your prospect, your new ideal customer, you’re trying to bring on board as a client. It grabs your attention, establishes your brand quality, even maybe your identity.

And I think some key ways today, with all the content that we are in a content creation universe, it is just a Mecca nirvana for creating content. It is a very easy and affordable way for you to be seen as an expert, as a credible industry leader, a leader in your field.

And then you could follow that up with 6 to 8 more of those impressions, like, let’s just it’s a marathon with putting content out every day.

But it’s all about making that impression, right? It’s about grabbing their attention in a way for a reason. You want the attention to be grabbed. So not for some scandal like Ben has had many.

Speaker2: Yeah. So I’ve met all my other girlfriends.

Speaker1: Ben had a sex tape once, you know, that came out, and.

Speaker3: I’ve seen it.

Speaker1: He was the only one in the sex tape. It was the first ever solo sex tape.

Speaker2: And I released it myself.

Speaker1: Yeah, Ben leaked it himself. So how was it that you guys piqued the curiosity of your wives? Because Ben’s married now, too, man.

Speaker3: Well, we met in in high school, so I was a sophomore.

She was a freshman drama class, and, I mean, so we were young. So I liked corn nuts, and I would eat corn nuts and then just blow the smell up into her seat so that she could smell the corn nuts and turn around. And then. What is corn? Nuts are gross.

Speaker1: Your relationship has always been built on just bad smells. Yeah.

Speaker3: So yeah, but I mean that that got the, you know, that started the conversation I suppose. So that’s probably not what you want to do.

Speaker2: Right. Corn nuts.

Speaker3: So you’re trying to close a sale.

Speaker1: If you’re trying to get a new client 15. If you’re trying to land that new customer, eat some corn nuts and blow it in their face. Find them.

Speaker2: Loves that. Find the metaphorical, find the metaphorical corn nut in your life. Yes, and blow that in your client’s face. Yeah.

Speaker1: There you go. That’s a tagline right there. Yeah, I think we should use that for our marketing company. So. So you piqued her curiosity. And, Ben, did you have to do anything? Because I know you had, like, an interesting story with how you. She found you for some weird painting.

Speaker2: Well, I was, yeah, we met later. Kind of the opposite, where we were in our mid 30s and we met online on him and.

Speaker1: Was saving himself.

Speaker2: And we she found I liked her a photo of, of hers. And then she looked at my profile and I had a video of me painting what ended up being an absolutely horrible self portrait and that made her laugh. I gave it to her as a as a gift. So she still has it, but it’s fantastic.

But with with that I would say, piquing her curiosity with humor. She really attached to that. And that’s what started the conversation. And I would.

Speaker1: Say too, because Ben went through this, I haven’t been through this myself because Austin, you and I, we got, we got we got into the

The Old Wives Club a little bit before the social media took over our lives. Yeah. So we did not experience the online dating. I remember when was the last. It was like one of the first platforms they had and it was called Hotornot.com. That was like one of the first dating websites.

And all it was though, was just you put a photo of yourself up and you got rated between 1 and 10 other people rated you.

Speaker2: Oh yeah. And that judgmental. But that was all that it was.

Speaker1: Yeah. And so it was just you were really rolling the dice. Oh man.

Speaker3: On that. That’s like playing Russian roulette with your emotional stability.

Speaker1: I walked away with a seven. I’m like, I’m like, that’s like a ten. Am I like, yes, thank you.

Speaker2: Just be above a five.

Speaker1: But since then it has evolved.

And I think this runs parallel with what businesses go through with social media. So Ben, you experienced it all the good, bad and the ugly with dating or trying to date on on dating apps like Tinder, Bumble I think Grindr’s another one.

Speaker2: Yeah. You know, I dabbled on all of them and all of them.

Speaker1: Duolingo. I think it was another dating app that Ben was on. It was where you learned Spanish while you date. Right? And, you know, it’s.

Speaker2: My my perspective of online dating similar to with businesses. You know, when you’re in your early 20s, you’re going to experience things differently mid 20s, late 20s, early 30s and just how you’re going into it when you have what if you know what you’re looking for and that your type of character and personality, certain characters and personalities do better with online dating than others. Same with businesses and social media. Same kind of thing. I overall there are tremendous cons and problems with online dating, but overall I think it is has evolved into a pretty effective way.

Speaker3: I’ve met somebody, I’ve met a lot of couples that that’s how they met. And I mean, they’re surprisingly they’re perfect for each other.

Speaker1: Yeah. I mean, there’s like, you know, farmers only Christian Mingle, like there like there’s some, like ones for people in their golden years, which is, you know, the golden Ashley Madison. Yeah. About to die. Madison is another good one. Yes.

Oh, yeah. Preferred 401 I think is another reputable platform for, you know, both finding a potential wife, future husband or just hiring a, you know, a sex worker. I mean, there’s just a lot of options out there.

My point, though, is that it runs parallel with because we had to relearn, reprogram ourselves on how to pique the curiosity out of the gate. Businesses are having to do this now, and it’s a major pain point because there are so many different platforms. They’re always changing and evolving and so you have Facebook Reels and Instagram Reels, you have TikTok, you have YouTube shorts, you have how many times should I post?

Oh, I got stories. Now they’re saying I should post every single day. How long should these videos be? What type of content should this be?

And so just to simply grab someone’s pique, someone’s curiosity, grab their attention. It’s similar to like dating like.

And that’s why you see a lot of people go into extremes. Or it’s just shirtless dude with a six pack or, you know, in Austin’s case, shirtless dude. Yes, six pack, maybe somewhere in there. But, you know.

Speaker3: Buried my son. Once I was got done working out, he was like, dad, where’s your muscles? And I’m like, I hide them under a layer of fat in order to trick my enemies. You’re like.

Speaker1: A bear, bears. I think you’re the same thing. So?

So you have to pique their curiosity, and you have to do it in a way that is going to reflect you in your business accurately, so that it doesn’t do damage because you don’t want to do things that are that push the line edgy, scandalous in a way that isn’t genuine to you. You know, if it’s forced. If it seems fake, because that’s going to have the opposite effect and that can have a first impression, can last forever, good or bad. The other important thing with curiosity.

Don’t sell them anything at this stage in the relationship. You do not sell them anything. You don’t make an ask. You only give them something of true value.

Speaker3: It’s almost like finding and waiting for the right opportunity to kiss them. Like if we’re going to relay that comes in.

Speaker1: In light enlightenment probably. Yeah.

Like the curiosity. It’s like, you know what? You don’t get to pressure, babe. I’m not going to ask you out here. I just said babe. Like, if I ever say that in real life.

So, like, with the curiosity, it’s kind of a no pressure zone, right? I mean, nobody likes the guy. Trust me. I know, because I was that guy who is just, like, quasi like stalker vibe where it’s like, oh, you want to go out, you want to go out, you want to hang out, you want to go out. I mean, nobody likes that kind of relentless pursuit, you know?

And they make it seem romantic in the movies. But when you show up in a girl’s front yard with a boom box above your head in the rain, in the rain, they just call the police.

It works differently. It’s a different universe for John Cusack than me. So, curiosity, you piqued their interest. Number two enlightenment. So this is where you show that there is something more to you, to your business.

So you can’t bore people into buying you. So you have to have engaging content in multiple, multiple forms. We encourage you.

We’ve talked about this before in the podcast to market like a farmer. And so you have like a hunter mindset, which is like, I’m going to go get sales, go get my dinner so I can eat tonight. Farmer mindset is I’m going to plant a seed. I’m going to slowly nurture it till it grows.

Then I can harvest this crop and then get the seeds from that, and it’ll all have a full belly for the rest of my life, because it’ll just keep feeding and fueling itself. And so you want to have this long term approach where again, you aren’t selling them on anything, but you are showing them, right, that you.

You have something more. There’s a deeper level. So, like, you know, Austin isn’t just a hot dad bod. You know, he’s also a really funny guy. He’s talented. He’s got some brains and some smarts in there, too. Are you two.

Speaker2: Dating?

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker3: This is where the ask is.

Speaker2: He’s gonna try to kiss you. Austin.

Speaker1: We both been in long term relationships. It’s tough. How long.

Speaker3: Have you been.

Speaker1: Married? Married for 12 years together, though. Is because that’s what I count. How long have you been together? That’s going on? 16. 16 years, 16.5 years. Something like that. We just did 20 years.

Speaker3: We just hit 23 in September. Yeah.

Speaker1: I probably got both of those numbers wildly inaccurate. And we’ll hear about it later when Wendy’s listening to this episode of the podcast.

Speaker3: Well, you got to say real quick, how did you pique her curiosity?

Speaker1: Well, so I was on the radio. So she I mean, she became a fan girl pretty much right out of the gate. I mean, come on, let’s be honest. Voice like this back there, I had big, poofy, horrible hair too, you know, it was a little chubbier, so I had everything going right for me. I mean, talking about.

Speaker2: Corn nut breath.

Speaker1: Oh, yeah. I was on a m news talk radio as a producer. So, you know, a lot of blue haired old ladies coming around after hours. And, you know, I mean, I did. I had one woman. She was very, very large woman. I mean, we were talking like she could be on have her own show on TLC. Sent me a nude photo of her and her husband telling me, this is like my first six months of working there, that they like to make love to each other with my photo up on their computer monitor.

Speaker3: Oh man.

Speaker1: Yeah, the world is weird world. You think they’re a bunch of squares? But no, they know how to party. They know how to party. But. So she heard me on the radio, so I had that going for me.

And then we played in a band too. We were playing in a band, so we had like the whole, I think I want to be a rock star, even though it was probably wildly embarrassing compared to how it played out in my head at the time, it was a lot cooler in my head than maybe how it looked, but so. So I had that going for me.

So you want to pique their curiosity and then the enlightenment part. So like with the enlightenment part, you know, Wendy and I would we would spend quality time together. You learn, you find out that, okay, this business, it isn’t just this one thing or. Yeah, that was kind of a funny way to grab my attention, Geico.

But it turns out Geico does all these things that are in line with my core values. You know, they’re military based and they support the military. Whatever your your company or you’re a lizard, they have a lizard, a talking gecko.

Speaker2: That’s my core value. Talking animals.

Speaker1: Specifically lizards. Yeah. Yeah. I want that lizards tail to fall off.

Speaker2: Oh, it’ll grow back.

Speaker1: Yeah. So you want to enlighten them.

Speaker3: Filed insurance claim on it for Ben.

Speaker1: You know he’s a musician. Very talented singer songwriter, very talented writer. He’s a teacher. He’s, you know, he’s, you know, he’s teaching. He’ll be back teaching someday here.

Speaker2: And you talk about core values. And when we being in our early 30s, we both knew what we wanted in a relationship. And so we were able that was probably one of the biggest adhesives that stuck us together and kept us interested in one another, because we knew long term that we’re not going to waste our time, which you don’t always have that in your 20s and other relationships. That’s a great.

Speaker1: Point for businesses, though, because I feel like businesses often don’t know who their ideal customer even is, like who they even want to be in a relationship with, or.

Speaker3: Even who they are.

Speaker1: Or who they are. They don’t know who they are. Like, if you can’t love yourself, you can’t love anybody else. Austin.

Speaker2: That’s what the point of this podcast episode is really about prevention. Another intervention. Love yourself each episode.

Speaker1: But you’re right. I mean, and I think that’s why businesses, they try businesses try to date everybody. They want every customer and they say, who’s your target audience? Everyone. I want everyone to come into my store.

Speaker3: They’re bisexual.

Speaker1: If you say if you say your audience is everyone, it really means no one. That means you don’t have anyone. You don’t know who your ideal customer is, you know, and you can have you can have, you know, you know, polyamorous relationship all day long. We’re not going to judge. We’ll support you. However, you need to know that that’s what you want, right? That’s the key.

Speaker2: Is it polyamorous or is it polygamous?

Speaker1: Well, no. Polyamorous is where you are dating in a relationship with multiple people. Okay. So like a throuple would be polyamorous a lot of times. Polyamorous are often in open relationships. They can date other people outside the relationship. Polygamy is where it’s like one. It’s that’s illegal. That’s where it’s like one guy who has like ten wives. History has shown us oftentimes they are underage, to say the least. And that’s where it gets kind of creepy and weird, right?

Speaker2: We don’t support polygamy.

Speaker3: Yeah. And plus the guy, I mean, how could he deal with that many women in the house, I hope. And because they’re going to fight each other for his attention.

Speaker2: Well, you said that.

Speaker1: Yes, that was Austin Anderson who said that. Ladies, Austin Anderson. Yes. I’d like to see a show on TLC where it’s like it’s the opposite. It’s like reverse polygamy, where it’s like a woman with like ten dude husbands. Is that does that exist? No, I’m saying I wish it did.

Speaker3: Only in the Bee Kingdom.

Speaker2: Yeah. The bees, they’ve got to figure it out.

Speaker1: Queens. Yeah. That’s true. Queen bees. That’s true. So we have curiosity. Grabbed their attention, piqued their. Just enlightenment. Show them there is something more to you and your business. Show. Show them what you are all about. You know you showing off the body to grab the attention.

Now you got to show them your mind.

Show them that you’re something more. You know, I like to use the analogy of like you see a, you know, like me, for example, running down the beach, you know, got my my Speedo, obviously, you know, you see me, I grab your curiosity right out of the gate because.

Speaker3: Because it’s an American flag.

Speaker1: It is an American flag, Speedo and.

Speaker2: On the front. But like some other country in the back. So you’re kind of confused.

Speaker1: And it’s got an American flag flag flying behind me. So as I run, it’s it’s like it’s really having an effect on tail. Yes. I mean, the muscles, the six pack, the just the fake tan, it’s all there in your face. And I have got your attention. I have piqued your curiosity. So then I walk up to you and you’re like, oh my God, now what’s going to happen here?

And then I start speaking in three different languages. First, you think I’m a little crazy because I am, but I also speak three languages and I have a PhD. I’m super smart. I’m a single dad and I volunteer for. I don’t know what’s like a good.

Speaker2: Um.

Speaker1: Uh, the Make-A-Wish.

Speaker2: All right. Sure.

Speaker1: Yeah. So you find out all these.

Speaker3: Things you deliver kids to their make a wishes, it’s like.

Speaker1: Wow, this guy is he deliver wishes, sexy douchebag. He. There’s actually some substance to this.

Speaker3: And he just didn’t know what language I spoke. That’s why he did three, right?

Speaker1: That’s why he did three back to back. I do that sometimes, though. Again, at the end of the enlightenment phase. Don’t sell anything, only deliver more value. So that’s all you want to do up until the final stage, which is commitment. So curiosity, enlightenment, commitment.

Speaker3: Of value like when you say deliver more value what like if you were talking to a business, just what’s an example of what you.

Speaker1: So for example you see this oftentimes online like you I want to download this free template or this worksheet or this workbook or this journal that I can print off and use again and again and again. Right. In order to get it, I have to give my email address. So people tend to equate the value of their email address to 10 to $20. So they will give you their email address for something that’s worth 10 to $20. So if they see something of true value. So let’s say you let’s say you do a podcast episode like this one here today. And we have what we call a lead generator.

So at the end of this episode, I’ll say, hey, if you want to download the, you know, seven key steps to Writing the best SEO blog article for your business.

The link is in the show notes. You can download it. It’s free, it’s free. It’s something of value. People will say, okay, well, to get it, they give me their give us their email address.

So now we can begin to nurture this relationship. Right. But even after they’ve given the email address and this is where that mistake can happen after enlightenment. So they’ve learned something.

We’ve given them an episode of something of true value. We gave them this cool daily planner or PDF or a checklist or something that they could really use. It’s also free, no strings attached. All we’ve asked for so far is just an email address. Pretty, pretty low request, right?

But it’s easy to make the mistake of jumping into commitment too fast, too soon. And then we say, buy this thing or make this decision, or schedule this meeting instead of just continuing to deliver something of true value. The best way to sell something is to not sell something. I have found like it requires patience, grace, and some virtue. You got to like kind of sum it up to be able to just not not jump the gun. I think you hit.

Speaker3: The key word there is patience. In so many aspects of life, but in that as well, just selling. Because I know you know from my past experience selling stuff. Yeah, when you’re not patient and you just want that sale right away, you normally don’t get that sale.

Speaker1: No you don’t. And it’s a it’s a vibe. It’s an energy that you put out. It almost is this like air of desperation to it. And so this applies to like when we were dating too. I mean, I remember we’d go out and when you walk up to somebody at a bar and you’re trying to, you know, put your best moves or your, I don’t have any moves, but like your best pickup line or whatever, and it falls flat.

Speaker3: That’s a good stretch. You got to, you know.

Speaker1: Yeah, I got the moves. I got the moves straight up.

Speaker2: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s what it looks like.

Speaker1: That’s what it looks like. You see me up.

Speaker3: There on stage. Those my band.

Speaker1: I’ll never forget my buddies when they would take me out to these clubs. And I hated going to clubs. They’re loud. You couldn’t hear anybody, and they would go on on the dance floor and just start dancing with random women. And so they were like the cool, you know, good looking guys. And I’m just like the I’m the funny guy entertainment sidekick along for the ride. And so I remember one time they’re like, come on, come on, just get out of here. I’m like, I can’t do this. I don’t even know how to do this. You just go up behind somebody, you start dancing, and pretty soon you wait. They’ll turn around and they’ll give you the look. And so I did. I walked out and I was like, started dancing.

Well, sure enough, there’s this girl back to me and she’s dancing and like, next thing you know, we’re dancing together.

And I’ll never forget the get the look of terror on her face when she turned around and I thought she was going to scream or something. It was just it was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, not interested in you at all.

So I jumped the gun. Now, had I given it more time and said, hey, maybe talk to her before I go up and try and dance behind her on a dance floor. You know, it worked for maybe it works for those guys. Some people jump into commitment.

Speaker3: Some people can pull that off.

Speaker1: Yeah, some people can do it, you know? So some key things to closing the deal or the sale.

Are you making the ask. Are you calling them to action? Are you even. Because we do this a lot where we think we’re making the ask, but we’re not on our websites. We have no call to action. It’s really hard to find like, okay, what am I supposed to do? I’m ready to buy. I’m ready to commit, but how do I do it? And then painting a vision of the stakes at hand.

So here’s what happens if you take action with us. Here’s how it happens if you don’t. But again, don’t pressure them, you know. And if you make the ask and they don’t buy it yet, then reintroduce the next leg of your nurture campaign, which goes back to enlightenment. So it’s just this cycle of you keep going and you have to wait. You have to be patient.

When they’re ready, they will say yes. And when they’re ready to say yes and you don’t force them or push them, they are going to commit for life. They’re going to commit because it’s their decision. It’s like people finding you organically, you know, like, you know, when people search Ben’s OnlyFans page, you know, they find him on their own.

He doesn’t promote it, he doesn’t talk about it. And when they do that, there’s this level of satisfaction and loyalty that comes with that. Yeah.

Speaker3: You know. Yeah. That’s right. That’s exactly how I felt when I found it.

Speaker2: Yeah, that’s that’s what I’m going for. Especially considering I only post blurred out of focus pictures.

Speaker1: And your sex tape.

Speaker2: And my solo sex.

Speaker3: Tape on a cat house.

Speaker2: On my cat tree. Human cat.

Speaker1: Tree. I haven’t seen a human.

Speaker2: Human cat tree poses. It’s my calendar that one got.

Speaker3: That one was posted this morning.

Speaker1: The three stages of any relationship curiosity. Enlightenment. Commitment. If you want some help putting together a free marketing plan, we have a one page marketing plan at six steps. All you got to do is just fill in the blanks and you can download it. Guess what? For free? Boom! The link is in the show notes and you can check out all the details on Two Brothers Creative for Ben Tompkins, Austin Mayadin and myself, I’m Matt. Wait, that didn’t add up.

Speaker2: Matt, you look like the kind of guy who is quick to point out the difference between jam and jelly. Yes.

Full Written Transcript of The Episode

The Best Marketing Can Still Fail

Matt: It’s time to close down the Success Prevention Department at your business. All the best marketing in the world cannot help you if you aren’t doing this.

We’re going to talk about what that is next. Hello and welcome back to Midwest Mindset, the podcast that makes marketing easy to understand and simple to do. I’m your host, Matt Tompkins of Two Brothers Creative, and today on the show, we have not one, two, three, four dudes. We have four dudes and a woman who is none other than Tracy Winkler of Elevate to grow the number two, by the way. Yeah, she’s cool like that.

Speaker2: By the time we get some representation on the show.

Speaker1: It is. It’s been a little unbalanced. That’s right, a little bit unbalanced. And that’s on us.

Speaker3: Need a good woman on us?

Speaker1: We own that. Tracy Winkler is. She’s a coach, business advisor. She’s done marketing. She’s done. She’s done a whole. I mean, I don’t even know.

You’re, like, doing a whole new coaching. Every time I see her, she’s doing a whole new coaching platform, but they all kick ass. She’s helped tons of business owners, including us here at Two Brothers Creative.

Tracy also looks like the kind of woman who has to Google on a regular basis what a GIF is and still isn’t sure if it’s a compliment or an insult.

Speaker2: So that’s a good one.

Speaker3: That’s the truth.

Speaker2: It actually.

Speaker1: Happened. It happened. She was on this podcast and somebody on YouTube. Like there were a couple people were like, look at that gif. And she’s like, what’s that mean?

I told her what it means. That’s so old school. I don’t know, it’s like, yes, it’s like you’re saying that I’m hot, but you’re also calling me old grandma. Like what?

Speaker3: I don’t am a grandma. I am a grandma. Let’s. Let’s be real.

Speaker2: It’s a compliment.

Speaker1: Grandmas. They’re young grandmas. I’ll take it as that. All right, let’s meet the rest of the crew here today. Behind the scenes, running the switcher, the control room.

There is a guy who he. He likes to pee in the shower, but only after he’s done showering. Ladies and gentlemen, Myron and McHugh. Myron, the guy he looks like.

Speaker2: Find out something new about you every day. Yes.

Speaker1: Austin Anderson is here with us again. Austin. He looks like the kind of guy who makes his own deodorant and thinks that it works.

Speaker2: It does. And I’ve been sitting next to you for a while.

Speaker4: I got to stop. You know, I got to take out garlic. Yeah, I think that ingredient is good for the skin.

Speaker2: Good for the skin, bad for the odor.

Speaker1: Add some deodorant to it. That’s. I think what you’re missing is the deodorant. So. And then I think you’ll have a home run, you know. And last but certainly not least, we have Ben, who looks like the kind of guy who brings up 911 a lot.

Speaker2: I just want people to be informed. I don’t want we. There’s an important day in our history.

Speaker1: It was. You’re right. Yes. Never forget.

Speaker4: But the kind of guy that might be writing a manifesto in his shed. In the backyard?

Speaker1: Yes, I can see that.

Speaker2: I like to journal. Austin.

Speaker4: It’s reflective journaling, a manifesto. Ben.

Speaker1: He looks like the kind of guy who likes to remove peas from the pod before he eats his green beans. I find.

Speaker2: It tastes.

Speaker1: Better. Yes. So therapeutic is.

Speaker2: What? Yeah, that’s.

Speaker4: What I was thinking. Those aren’t.

Speaker2: Insults today. This is real.

Speaker1: Today we’re talking about closing down that success prevention department. What does that mean? Well, you have to ask an honest question.

When you were running your business. That is, do you really need marketing or do you need operations? Do you have a plan? Do you have any way to actually capitalize or take advantage of this?

Marketing doesn’t matter how great the marketing is, it could be the best marketing in the universe. But if you’re not ready to close the deal, if you don’t have sales in place, you’re not really ready to onboard people or you provide a lackluster experience for your customers, it’s not going to matter.

In fact, it’s going to have the opposite effect. And since Tracy is like she’s Ms. operations, like, you know, they had the movie Miss Congeniality.

Speaker3: Oh.

Speaker1: Really? Yes. Okay. I’m not comparing you to her. I’m just saying that they made a movie called Miss Congeniality for you. I might they would make it.

Speaker3: Could be compared to.

Speaker1: Her, miss. Really? For you? They would make miss operations.

Speaker4: That’s a cool.

Speaker2: Nickname to.

Speaker1: Miss operations. Miss operations?

Speaker2: Are you like.

Speaker3: That? Yeah.

Speaker2: Okay, miss.

Speaker3: Oh, okay. Okay.

Speaker1: Don’t you think, like.

Speaker4: We all need more than one name? You know, like we’d be like, miss, this is Miss Congeniality. So this is multiple names. Yeah. The ultimate coach of America. Mcgill. Yeah. Skills of.

Speaker1: Lauryn Hill. You know, I think is in there. So yeah, it’s a compliment. So miss operations here. So I thought this would be a great topic to talk about with you. But I wanted to start off, I wrote a little poem.

Speaker2: It’s always writing poems for the guests. He never writes a poem for us. But as soon as you come on, as soon as Miss Operations comes on the show.

Speaker1: Well, it’s Miss Operations, all right. Humpty Dumpty had a brother named Paul.

Paul’s new business had a great fall. Paul spent lots of money on marketing and ads. But just like his Beanie Baby collection, they were worthless and sad.

Speaker2: Ben, why are you looking at me when he says you have.

Speaker1: A massive Beanie Baby collection?

Speaker3: Beanie babies at home?

Speaker1: He still buys them today even though he knows.

Speaker4: Did you keep the collection?

Speaker2: I know you have Princess Diana. There’s a Beanie Baby. Princess Diana?

Speaker4: Yeah.

Speaker1: Princess Dean, is that the same?

Speaker4: I don’t know.

Speaker3: I have no idea. I did all the best marketing.

Speaker1: In all of the world couldn’t save Humpty. Brother Humpty Dumpty’s brother Paul’s business at all. That was not a very good poem. It’s terrible.

You get it? I loved it. It’s Humpty Dumpty’s brother, Paul, so it’s not going to be like the original. He’s the black sheep of Dumpty Humpty’s.

So this happens, I think, more times than we think. So first let’s establish first thing we need to understand what is marketing. What’s the goal of marketing? What are we trying to accomplish?

Speaker4: We got to let. Tracy. Tracy.

Speaker3: Yeah, okay.

Speaker1: Difference between marketing and operations here. What is marketing?

Speaker3: It’s actually to just get eyes on your business and it’s just to bring get awareness to the business. Yeah. A few of the things get discovered.

Speaker1: Yep. You’re going to remind people that you exist, which sounds really weird. But when they’re bombarded by thousands of ads every day and content every day, you need to be there in that.

Speaker3: Need to be relevant.

Speaker1: You need to be relevant. You need to build relationship, right?

Speaker3: Yes. That’s a key. Absolutely.

Speaker1: Trust is the foundation for anything and everything we do in life. And I will tell you firsthand, and, Tracy, you probably speak to this like if you if you establish trust, they will fill in the blanks.

Speaker3: Right? Absolutely. You’ve got to know, like and trust before people try buy and refer.

Speaker1: Oh I heard the know like and trust but try buy and refer try buy refer.

Speaker3: So you’ve got to build that first.

Speaker1: This is why we call you miss operations.

Speaker2: Like earning the name.

Speaker3: I’m earning my name.

Speaker2: Your titles are proven.

Speaker1: Yeah. I think you could be the next Sandra Bullock.

Speaker4: Then will you give us a quick, just brief overview of your career, like how you became the Miss Congeniality of operations? Miss operations.

Speaker3: Oh my goodness. Well, where.

Speaker1: Did it all start?

Speaker3: That was just a couple of years ago. Started. Let’s just say I was 27. Yep. 27. No. Started. I worked for my family business for almost 20 years and they have truck stops, convenience stores. There’s eight different divisions.

Speaker1: She’s a muscleman. She’s a boss man, big family out in Grand Island. So I was third generation.

Speaker3: So slave labor in the early years didn’t matter, right? So started working there after college and spent 20 years there and worked through all different divisions, making it more efficient.

So and I was in the ops side, everything ops project management. After I left there, there was a forced buyout. There was kind of some crazy stuff that happened with family business.

So I left have co owned six total businesses owned and co owned and so I’m addicted. Kind of that serial entrepreneur that gets loves business talks business misses operations. Did I say misses or was I miss miss miss.

Speaker1: Yeah. Don’t tell your husband but we’re giving you a little. Okay. I’m Miss Freedom a little. You know, the leash isn’t quite so tight on this program. You know, it’s like. Wait, that sounded really weird. That’s not what I meant by that. But. Yeah, and you’ve been a CMO, a chief marketing officer.

Speaker3: So it’s been. I am so multi-passionate that I love all things to help businesses. So by doing that, I’ve have enough certifications to probably like paper that wall over there, you know.

So yeah, it went on, I was in medical weight loss and I owned a couple weight loss clinics, and I was a regional rep and a national trainer for coaches. So I traveled all over.

And so like I said, the coaching, there’s the coaching aspect. I always needed to market and help them market. So that’s that’s just like the ten cent tour of what I. What miss? Oh, not Miss Congeniality. What miss operations.

Speaker1: Operations. What would you say is like how common is this scenario where they have marketing? It kind of I feel like there’s almost two outcomes.

Typically it’s either operations is working but the marketing falls flat. Yes, they need to pivot because that’s just how marketing works. It’s a B testing. Yes. And they don’t.

They blame marketing. And so then they give up on marketing. And then that kills can kill your business or marketing maybe works and maybe it works really well, but the operations aren’t in place to handle it. You know, if you don’t like when I say my operations, like, do you have a sales team so that when you have been discovered, you grab people’s attention, you have made them aware you are having those daily constant impressions.

They know, like and trust you. And they say, you know what? Now it’s top of mind when I’m going to buy this pair of homemade shoes that Ben has sewn together the homemade shoe.

Speaker2: High quality, high quality. And they’re made with care. They love and care too.

Speaker1: Yeah. Their hair shoes.

Speaker3: Okay. Yeah.

Speaker1: Cat hair.

Speaker2: Well, it’s a it’s a.

Speaker1: Trade secrets secret.

Speaker2: Can’t tell you. Can’t tell you.

Speaker1: Yeah. It’s like the it’s like the secret sauce at McDonald’s. You know what.

Speaker2: Kind of.

Speaker4: His wife’s hair keeps getting shorter.

Speaker5: Oh, okay. Makes sense.

Speaker1: Actually. Okay, so so so.

Speaker3: Watch my hair.

Speaker1: If Ben though, if he has his marketing is going gangbusters. Everybody is interested. And then he’s not making the ask or putting out the. They don’t know that he’s even selling a product. They just they’re familiar with him. They know like and trust him, you know. Worry. Worst case yet they walk into his store, physically walk in and they don’t have customer service. They don’t have a sales team.

There isn’t anybody with any sort of training or experience who can take this person, who is more than interested, to buy those crazy pair of hair shoes. But since Ben has not invested any time into building the operations of his business, he can’t capitalize on marketing, no matter how good it may be performing.

Speaker3: That happens more than not, and most people, they think of marketing as tactical or doing one thing, and that’s going to lead them there. We’re going to do a social media post and they’re going to come right to us, but they’ve never given a real call to action. They don’t have a strategy around it or the inside part. We can lead them to water, let’s say, with the marketing. But how do you get them to drink? So you’ve got to give them the actions so they know and they need simple actions.

Speaker1: That’s it.

Speaker4: It’s oh, sorry. Oh I was just going to say what do you think the in your experience over all these years is the best call to action, you know, is it I mean does it is it different for each scenario or.

Speaker3: Absolutely different for each scenario. So and it’s really what you want them to do. We have to tell them what we want them to do. It could be multiple things. So you know basically if you want them to sign up for an email list, if you want to have them buy, if they’re, you know, it really depends.

Speaker1: I think the best way to make a call to action is to call them to action for their benefit. So think like Star Wars, right? Perfect example here.

Obi-wan Kenobi. He is the guide. He is your business, right? Luke Skywalker he is the hero of this story. Luke Skywalker is your customer. Businesses. We make the mistake of assuming we’re the hero of the story when we’re not. We’re the guide. We are Obi-Wan Kenobi here to call Luke to action. So we give him a plan.

We call him to action. Use the force is literally the call to action. You know, you have to give up the at the end of the movie. I mean, he’s got the thing he’s like, pushes it away and he’s like, no, man, I’m just going to use the force, which is how he says it. If I remember, man, no man.

Speaker2: No man, use the force.

Speaker3: Yeah, I don’t remember that. But, you know.

Speaker1: Use the force. And so then he used it. He shoots those two laser things in a very sexualized scene in the movie. I feel like that’s never talked about. I mean, it’s like, uh, like very kind of.

Speaker4: Yeah, yeah, I always thought that was Ghostbusters and those weird things that they hold by their crotch.

Speaker1: Yes. That’s true. You call them to action. You make the ask by not saying buy from me. Now give me your money. I mean, you want to say that, but, like, you’re not that direct or that cold. It’s. This is what’s at stake, right? If you don’t use the force, Luke, then it’s going to be the annihilation of your home planet of Alderaan or whatever.

Speaker2: The Tatooine.

Speaker1: Tatooine, you know.

Speaker3: And they’re going to go to another planet.

Speaker4: It’s like the kind of guy that knows everything about Star Wars.

Speaker1: If you do use the force, then we destroy the Death Star and the whole galaxy is saved, right? So painting those stakes, and I think the operations side of it, though, is one I think. Would you agree? Like business owners, we don’t want to admit when maybe we don’t have a ship that’s run as tight as as we think, like we business owners are. We talked about this. There’s like constructive delusion.

Like you have to have like positive delusion to even be an entrepreneur. But I think sometimes we’re delusional in the sense that it’s unhealthy where we think, oh, well, I’ll just do marketing and it’ll bring people in, and I don’t need a sales person, and I don’t need to train people and what’s lead generation and follow what’s a nurture sales campaign.

And like I have to have a database. Why would I need a database to follow up with customers?

Like, what do you mean? It’s like five times less expensive to get a person who’s already shopped here to come back here and shop again than getting a new customer. And there are these those are just operational things.

I mean, there’s obvious stuff like, you have to keep the lights on, you have to keep enough of your product or service in stock to where you can provide meet the demand. But not having a sales, not having a way to capitalize on your marketing is a I think it’s a kind of a hidden Grand Canyon of just like this mistake that I think is made more common than we realize.

Speaker3: Oh, 100%, because you obviously have like all, all the people that are like, there’s just so much to it.

There’s a lot of steps. So people get overwhelmed. They’re like, they just let’s do the tactical and it’s just quick and easy and they’re just going to come and like you said, they’re just got blinders on and they’re in overwhelm. A lot of entrepreneurs and founders are just trying to keep the lights on, trying to do everything to, you know, having the galaxy blow up or I’m not a I’m not a Star Wars. No, I’m not, I’m not I’m killing this one.

Speaker4: No, that was perfect. I understood it because I’ve I’m not either a Star Wars. You’re not.

Speaker3: Okay.

Speaker2: I’ve, I’ve got everybody covered here. Yeah. Because I got.

Speaker1: The Star Trek covered on that side. So we’re really.

Speaker4: You guys were brothers growing up in a household. One’s a trekky. One’s a yeah, yeah.

Speaker1: Well, I enjoy stars.

Speaker4: Get along well.

Speaker1: Okay. I enjoy Star Wars as well. But it was the the sophistication of TNG. Star Trek The Next Generation is just, you know, it’s kind of like, how do I say this?

Speaker4: It’s for the more intelligent.

Speaker1: Yes. I mean, it’s like, yes. Am I wearing a pair of whitey tighties? Yes. Obviously not the coolest look, but they’re fresh, they’re soft, they’re Calvin Klein’s versus these ratty old. I don’t know what this is dad’s been wearing for 30 years. The original series, you know. So I don’t think there’s really a comparison between the two personally. Now, Star Wars and Star Trek, we’re not going to get into that because that’s going to get heated.

Speaker2: And get ugly.

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker3: I mean, I am going to say I do like Star Wars better than Star Trek.

Speaker2: I’m sorry. That’s the correct answer.

Speaker1: Well, Star Wars, it’s more adventurous. They have more stuff going on. But Star Trek is more, you know, it’s more more attractive. And Star Wars, there’s no jar Jar Binks in Star. Star Trek, all right. I mean, you have reasonable thought and rational debates.

Speaker4: And weird airs and.

Speaker1: Yeah, and weird ears and. Yeah. So let’s talk about how to close down this success prevention department. So you mentioned how it’s like complicated. It gets overwhelming.

So give Ben some simple tips here on how to like what if we’re if we’re looking to put something in place for a marketing strategy for a business before we even hit the ground?

Because you’re right, they make the mistake of going for the tactics. Let’s put together a strategy that includes how are you actually going to benefit from this marketing? So let’s say we’ll take Ben’s. You want to use your cat human cat tree restore.

Speaker2: A human cat tree where you and the cat are in a tree together.

Speaker1: Like those carpeted trees, you.

Speaker3: See.

Speaker2: Okay, okay.

Speaker3: So this is what you’re selling now.

Speaker2: You can snuggle up with the cat in the cat tree. So it’s a human cat tree.

Speaker3: So? So it’s big enough for you to snuggle? Yes.

Speaker1: Okay, okay. There’s a perch.

Speaker2: There’s a perch. There’s a little compartment. Does it take.

Speaker3: Like a up a room?

Speaker2: Yeah, it’s pretty much a bedroom.

Speaker3: So it’s the bedroom. It’s a cat. But the human can be with.

Speaker1: Like binge is carpeted his bedroom.

Speaker2: I pretty much did wall to wall. Yeah.

Speaker1: So let’s say different levels. What’s your what’s your goal with these human cat trees? I want to go for your business.

Speaker2: I want to bring happiness to cat owners, and I want to build a stronger connection between the cat and the owner.

Speaker1: And how do you do that?

Speaker2: I want to support equality.

Speaker1: Okay. And how are you going to do that in a tangible, measurable way? Like what’s the metric we’re going to?

Speaker2: Well, I feel like the more I sell these cat trees, that that cat tree is going to be the tool that does it.

Speaker1: So selling cat.

Speaker2: Selling my human cat trees.

Speaker4: And he’s thinking ahead because he’s looking at, you know, the trend forecast about how more children are becoming cats. Yes.

Speaker2: So I identify.

Speaker3: I identify as a.

Speaker2: Cat.

Speaker4: He’s going to jump on the market.

Speaker1: Yes. Okay. So selling cat trees human cat trees, just pure sales numbers here. Right. So you just list it out and you could put this in more simplified terms for yourself at some point. But you, you laid out your, your mission statement and your vision statement. Your vision is you want to make human beings and cats equals who love and respect each other. Your mission statement can be more specific. So beautiful. In the next three years you could say, you know by the year 2028 or 2020. By the year 2028, we will have sold 2000 human cat trees because we believe that humans and cats are equals.

Speaker4: All right. It’s.

Speaker1: And now your mission statement is as simple as that. It’s just that here’s a here’s a tangible goal, a metric. And then here’s why we’re doing it.

Speaker3: It’s kind of your loneliness statement as well. Kind of what makes you so different. And this is very different.

Speaker5: Yes. Yeah.

Speaker2: Well you be our operations. Yeah.

Speaker1: So I.

Speaker2: Don’t know Cat.

Speaker3: I have to learn a little more. I’m a dog girl. Okay.

Speaker1: Dog trees. Now let’s say you, you want to put together your marketing strategy. Your end goal is here to sell those.

Those, you know, 2000 human cat trees. You’ve got three years. So we’re going to backtrack it a little bit. So maybe we’re selling like, you know, 750 of these human cat trees per year over average. So then we’re going to backtrack that even more. How many do we need to sell each quarter? Austin. Oh geez.

Speaker2: What’s the math on that. Yeah.

Speaker4: I mean, I’m just I’m just going to rough it around, you know, say a couple.

Speaker1: Hundred.

Speaker4: 200. Yeah, I was going to say 200 to 50.

Speaker1: So then to 200 and then now you can break that down into the months of the quarter. Ben, you remember how months work in the quarter, right.

Speaker2: There’s 12 of.

Speaker1: Them in a quarter. That’s right. And then so so then we’re going to.

Speaker3: Break that down, then.

Speaker1: Say 7580. Whatever your numbers are you can break it down that simple. So this month we need 80 human cat trees sold. So that means each week of that month we need 20 human cat trees, which means we need to get I need to.

Speaker2: Get off this podcast and go start selling some human cat trees is what this is sounding like.

Speaker1: So now now you have your metrics. So you know, okay, every week we need to sell, you know, ten human cat trees or whatever your number is. Are they.

Speaker3: Made?

Speaker2: No. Yeah.

Speaker3: So productions a whole nother to produce.

Speaker1: So we haven’t produced them yet. Okay.

Speaker2: Wasn’t prepared for this. Well, we’re.

Speaker3: We’re mapping it out. Don’t worry.

Speaker1: We’re mapping it out. It’s a mind map here.

Speaker4: You don’t second guess yourself.

Speaker1: So you you have your goals. So then now we kind of have a we have a plan of like how can we measure success. So before here’s the mistake I think that’s made is we just jump into it and we just start calling up our friend and saying, hey, you want a cat tree? Hey, you want a cat tree? Hey, you want a human cat tree? And I’m like, Ben, stop calling me. I don’t have a cat. You’re going to lose friends.

Speaker3: I’m sorry.

Speaker1: Yeah. So putting together the strategy.

Speaker2: I think I’m going to lose a lot in.

Speaker1: This includes how you’re going to produce all these human cat trees. Where are you going to store these human cat trees? Are you going to be the only person selling these human cat trees? Are you the only person building them who’s going to be overseeing production and quality check and just all these different variables. Do you have any of that together, Ben?

Speaker2: Well, that’s why I’m working here at this company. I was hoping you could help with this.

Speaker1: Little panic in your voice. It’s okay. Ben, we’re here for you.

Speaker2: I want to sell the company.

Speaker3: Sell it before you’ve made anything. That’s awesome.

Speaker1: So, Tracy, walk us through the operation side, sell it to.

Speaker4: The Tiger King.

Speaker1: We have these big goals. We have metrics we can start tracking. Maybe we even have some ideas for marketing. But before we get to that, it’s the operational side of of it.

So miss operational operations. So what would you do? What would you put together. Do you need to what accountability. Chart roles, responsibilities, workflows? Where would you begin if we’re simplifying this for not just Ben, but any human tree kind.

Speaker3: Of a startup basically, yeah. The way we’re going about this, because this is just a dream in your head. Have you even build a prototype?

Speaker2: No, I built one out of cardboard, so and it didn’t work.

Speaker3: Okay.

Speaker2: But the idea in my head looks amazing.

Speaker3: That’s awesome. Okay, so. So first we need a prototype.

Speaker5: Yes.

Speaker1: Well, Ben has taken out a sizable loan from the bank, though, so I will give you a credit for that, I think. What, half $1 million, right. If. How much is left?

Speaker2: Well, I’m not really sure.

Speaker1: But, you know.

Speaker2: You know, I I’ve, I’ve got to treat myself.

Speaker5: So. Okay.

Speaker3: We got.

Speaker4: Caviar.

Speaker1: He really needs this to work because.

Speaker2: I feel like I need to be in a strong mental state in order to build the first. Okay. And being in a strong mental state means I need to go on a number of vacations.

Speaker1: Forehand massages. I get it.

Speaker3: Okay, this is not a good start. I’m sorry to say we’re not planning very well. So yes, you need a prototype. You need to actually have know the numbers of what’s going to what it takes to produce them, how long it takes to produce them. As Matt had said, where are you going to store these? How many?

What’s what’s the overhead? What’s the cost involved? Then you have to include how are you going to get it out to the world? Who’s going to handle that?

Who’s going to handle selling it? Who’s going to handle the internal part to get it shipped, or do you build it when you get there? All the just a few little things, right. Because you have to measure things you have to track.

Speaker2: I’ll just send I’ll just have a pro like the prototype, the blueprint. I’ll just send that to the people with the material they’re building. They go out and get the materials. Oh.

Speaker1: So. And then. Yeah, well, that mitigates even.

Speaker3: A lot easier.

Speaker2: Yeah. So I’ll just give them a list. Here’s all what you need to buy.

Speaker1: So you’re selling them a drawing of a cat human cat tree at this point okay.

Speaker3: So just.

Speaker2: Thought of this.

Speaker3: Okay. So now we got.

Speaker4: To I can see Matt is losing faith in you with the size. All right.

Speaker1: Big, big selling point here for two brothers created by the way. You know.

Speaker3: So you’re selling weight in three years. How many units? 2000.

Speaker1: I think it was the random number. We.

Speaker3: So we’re not going to be making a lot because this is just a blueprint, right? Yes. So this is just a side hustle.

Speaker1: So here’s what I would say is go back to baby steps. All right. So back.

Speaker5: To basics.

Speaker1: How quickly this all kind of spiraled out of control. And you Ben he’s sitting here. You look overwhelmed. And you look a little I’m scared. Yes you’re shaking right I’m scared shaking. And, you know, like a leaf.

Speaker5: Like a leaf.

Speaker2: Could use a cat tree to sit in.

Speaker1: So instead of letting yourself get to this state, because this is usually usually where most business owners find them at some point early on, the first, you know, 1 to 3 years is in this anxiety ridden state of just pure panic. And they’re just trying to tread water, trying not to drown.

Basically, they don’t know what they’re doing. They’re grasping for straws. They’re listening to people like us telling them, oh, you need to do this, this and this. Just focus on the simple things, the little things, and take it step by step.

So, you know, she mentioned tracking time. So just keep track of how long does it take you to make one cat tree. Does it make one human cat tree. Let’s give it to Nana and let Nana. That’s it. One of his cats. Try this human cat tree and beta test it.

So let’s see if this even works. Is there any interest then? Okay, there’s some interest. She likes it. You made some notes. You applied that to your next your next version or model of this human cat tree.

Then you go on social media and you just do a post, hey, here’s this incredible human cat tree. Would anybody be interested in buying taking pre-orders now? And you can set up a simple click funnel or an email system through your website or just, you know, you could a lot of easy ways you can do that. Message me. Slide into my DMs as they say. I think that’s what that’s about, right?

And then you find out and you can gauge is their interest. You know, if it’s like, wow, I got 400 requests for this thing and I just did one post. Or it could be I got zero requests for this. People told me to stop posting about my human cat trees.

Speaker3: And what if they don’t want to build it themselves?

Speaker5: And if they don’t want.

Speaker1: To build it themselves? Yeah, so so but then you have a gauge because then you can do things like, okay, we’re going to take pre-orders where you pay half down to help us kind of finance building out these human cat trees. And you start to build that out and you just keep track of everything.

But that’s how you want to work is it’s it’s kind of slow and methodical, which is I think it makes it unsexy. But that is how you establish an operational structure to your business. The secret about operations is that you are never done, never, never done. You’re always working to improve it, to fine tune it. It’s never done to where you can just set it and forget it. And I think that’s been one of the biggest mistakes, is we think, oh, I can just set it and forget it. I’m going to.

Speaker5: Do some marketing Kodak moment.

Speaker1: I’m going to buy some Facebook ads. This thing’s going to take off. And I just sit back and cash the checks.

Speaker4: So it’s operations the same as putting systems into place basically.

Speaker5: Processes.

Speaker4: Processes. And then the systems always evolve over time. You’re always tweaking. And like you said, refining.

Speaker1: Create a system. That’s the easiest way to describe it.

Speaker3: Just like when you’re onboarding a client. What’s your onboarding process? When you’re any type of sales, any type of accounts payable, everything has should have a process to make it simplified so that you can it can be scalable and repeatable as well, even because Matt might or Ben might have like cats that he brings along.

So it’s something that a cat can do maybe. Right. Okay, I think so. You know.

Speaker1: I mean, even sales like people just assume, well, just go out and get some sales. But there’s a there is a method to the madness. So cold calling is still the number one way to by the way, to get new new prospects and land new business. People hate doing it because we hate being rejected and Austin’s been in LA. It’s worse than being an actor auditioning for shows.

Speaker4: Oh yeah, because I’ve done cold calling. Oh yeah, and I’ve been rejected on a mass scale. It takes, I think, that.

Speaker3: Going for the. No.

Speaker4: I think that the cold calling is it’s tough. I don’t know why, you know, because as a performer and I’ve done stand up for so long, I was like when I got offered, hey, do these cold calls? It paid really well. I’m like, that would be easy. And then I can get up in front of 2000 people. But calling one person on the phone and I’m like.

Speaker6: That is.

Speaker1: Rejection. Like, like stuttering. But it works. It works. It’s still top dog, you know? I mean, even if you could get through, leave a voicemail. That’s fantastic too. It works far more effectively than email, than, you know, messaging. And so but have you.

Speaker4: Done a lot of cold calling and.

Speaker1: Calculate how many cold calls you need to make to close a sale, though? 100 cold calls, I get one new closed sale. So that means if I want to have 2000 cat trees, well, I just got to take 2000 times 100 spread that over over three years break it down into your days. Now, I know if I make, you know, 100 cold calls per day, by the year 2028, I will have sold 2000 human trees.

Speaker4: Is that is that pretty much ironclad? 100 calls, one sale for people that I’ve never tried it before.

Speaker1: Hypothetical example.

Speaker4: But or it.

Speaker3: Varies. But it is. The more calls you make, the more you’re going to close, right? I mean, it’s just numbers, you know, so you have to be scientific with it. And the more you call and yes, I have done it. And when I slack off, I don’t get as many prospects in as many deals.

And it’s just keeping the relationship and the follow through. So that’s the same thing with systems. If people don’t have the follow through or for marketing sake, we bring in the leads. Let’s say we’re helping bring in the leads, but it’s their job. We lead them.

You lead them to water. But how do we make them drink? That’s on the company, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. So if Ben gets all these leads and he’s not like, calling, well, his buddies are kind of saying no, but now he’s got to start calling people he doesn’t know and just. And yes, there are a lot of them are probably going to say no. Yeah. Because he’s got to get those right.

Speaker2: Cat lovers don’t have any faith in this project. You need to.

Speaker1: Find your niche.

Speaker3: Oh, there might be there might be cat lovers like you out there. I’m just, you know.

Speaker4: There are so many weird people out there like Hope.

Speaker1: I like to use this as the the analogy I like to use to close out this episode. Your marketing, it’s like, imagine that your your business is a bathtub.

Speaker2: Okay. The bath bathtub analogy.

Speaker1: Yes. Your bathtub. All right. So you are all the way down in the bottom of this bathtub, right? And you imagine you’re a tiny little like one inch person. And then there’s all these customers up at the top on the ledge up there, and they’re all hanging out, and they’re waving their money and they’re like, hey, we want to we want to give you money for your product, but you got to figure out a way to get up there.

So now to do it without marketing is to oh, you got to figure out you got to you got to be able to climb a scale, a mountain. And those bathtubs are tough because it’s slick. It’s porcelain. And it’s really hard to get to stop. You are exerting a lot of effort and energy and resources to make one sale.

Marketing is like you start to let this bathtub slowly fill up with water, and you just sit in your boat and you just let the water slowly rise you to the top, to where you are now at eye level. And then people can just hand you your money. You can hand them your goods or services. It’s much easier, but you still need a boat.

You know you can’t be selling stuff if you’re swimming in the bathtub. You need a boat for your business to be in. You need a place. You need the tools. You need the the strategy, all of these things. You need the people, the strategy, execution and the cash critical for your success. So and it’s similar to like Ben when you take baths. So I thought you’d like that one.

Speaker2: Stop telling people I take baths.

Speaker1: Twice.

Speaker5: A day. Do you have a.

Speaker3: Boat in your bathtub?

Speaker2: No, not a full size one. Okay.

Speaker1: Sometimes I pretend my bathtub is a boat, though. We want to help you make your marketing easy right now. In the show notes, click on the link.

You can get started for free. You give us 30 minutes. We give you 30 days of content.

All you got to do is book that free strategy call. We’ll talk about this and more. We’ll dial in on your business, see what your pain points, your needs, your challenges, opportunities and the threats, the strengths, the weaknesses, everything and Swot analysis. I’m really getting into this. I think I probably could have closed it a lot earlier, but I just kept going. That’s okay. And now I feel like I can’t really regain. It’s like when you’ve left a voicemail that’s gone on too long and you know it.

Speaker4: Oh, dude. And then you and then you want to start over. Yeah, I want.

Speaker1: To start over.

Speaker4: I hate when you do the record and send a message and it automatically sends and you want to redo it. Have you ever done that. And then I’ll say this message is terrible. I’m sending you another one okay.

Speaker1: Yeah.

Speaker4: Just be honest. Throw that out.

Speaker1: All right. So Beep.

Thank you so much to Tracy Winkler for joining us here today on the podcast. Of course in the show notes you can click on the link and get your marketing started. Easy easy peasy easy breezy beautiful CoverGirl. Yes, the link is in the show notes to get started for free with a free strategy call you give us 30 minutes. We give you 30 days of content.

Let us help you take the marketing off of your plate. We’ll work with you to develop a strategy for your business, whether it’s a human cat tree or not. And I believe that that idea is now open. If anybody wants to buy the web domain human categoryqom from me, I think Ben is throwing in the towel on this. I’m done.

Speaker4: Yeah, it’s only half a mil.

Speaker5: Yes, yes.

Speaker1: Half $1 million.

Human cat tree.com.

Full Written Transcript of The Episode

Local Ads: Why Are They So Bad?

Matt Tompkins: Why are local television commercials so bad? They’re awful and we all know it. We all see it. We all make fun of them. But why do they continue to be made in this episode of Midwest Mindset? We are going to answer that question why are local TV commercials so bad?

And I’m going to give you three things you need to do, or maybe not do, so that your commercial doesn’t suck to. Hello and welcome back to Midwest Mindset, the podcast that makes marketing simple and easy to do.

I’m your host, Matt Tompkins of Two Brothers Creative, where we want to make your marketing easy.

With the easy box, you give us 30 minutes, we give you 30 days of content, and we post it for you on all your socials. All of them. Yes. Joining me in the studio here today, we have the other brother of two brothers, creative.

Ben Tompkins: Oh, is that me? That’s me, that’s.

Matt Tompkins: Mikey Austin Anderson. I’ve upgraded.

Ben Tompkins: I’ve been replaced. You’ve been.

Matt Tompkins: Replaced.

Ben Tompkins: The other money. You missed it.

Matt Tompkins: Okay. The other other brother, Martin McHugh. Mayadunne’s in the studio. He’s punching up the buttons and the the knobs and a lot of gizmos and gadgets in there.

And last but certainly least, give it up for my blood brother blood.

Ben Tompkins: Brothers, Ben.

Matt Tompkins: Tompkins.

Ben Tompkins: That’s what Hopkins wanted the company name to not be two brothers. I wanted it to be Blood Brothers.

Matt Tompkins: Blood Brothers. But then true Blood came out and it was like we were like, you know, marketing, branding. We’re like, we can’t we can’t be identified too closely with vampires. Yeah.

Ben Tompkins: Do you ever just stop and think how we’re all just full of blood?

Matt Tompkins: Yes.

Austin Anderson: Oh, yeah. Did you know that blood is actually blue until it touches the air?

Matt Tompkins: I don’t think that’s true. I think that’s an urban myth.

Austin Anderson: I don’t, I think science get.

Ben Tompkins: Out, Austin out spreading misinformation.

Matt Tompkins: That’s misinformation.

Austin Anderson: That was what my kid learned it, you know, and I know.

Matt Tompkins: I’ve heard that too. But I don’t think it’s actually accurate. But I’ve heard it’s green.

Austin Anderson: Is it like ooze?

Matt Tompkins: Yes. I love how in Nebraska, here in Husker Nation, everybody says we all bleed Husker Red. And I’m like, isn’t everybody’s blood red?

Austin Anderson: Yeah, a lot of a lot of losing.

Matt Tompkins: Yeah, yeah. There’s a lot of bleeding. They can’t stop the bleeding. Now get a tourniquet out. Okay, so this is a question I think, you know, this was made relevant to me again last night watching. Have you guys ever watched local high school football? I think they call it Thursday Night Live and they have like a Friday night version.

Austin Anderson: But I want to I’ve seen clips.

Ben Tompkins: When I was a teacher, I would see clips of it and it’s yeah, it’s pretty low production.

Matt Tompkins: Yes. First off, you never see the announcers. No, you only hear them and one of them is a recognizable voice, but they never tell you who they are.

There’s not one point where they made an introduction, so it’s just some guy talking like this. I don’t know who taught sports announcers or newscasters that this is the way we want to hear them talk, because it sounds ridiculous.

Austin Anderson: It is. Where did it come from? No idea. When I watched the news, I think that I’m like, who started this? Yeah. And why? When they would go to school, they’re like, this is the way you talk or you will, why am I.

Matt Tompkins: Ending my sentence like this? Yeah, just talk normal. Like, what is the deal? What’s happening? Tell us the origin. So I’m watching it. And they have all of these, like, just shameless plugs from advertisers on there. And I don’t blame the advertisers, these companies because like, they’re hitting a market.

You know, I think it was like West Side football game. So they’re hitting the rich.

They’re in the rich, rich families, you know, Nebraska Furniture Mart ads, ortho Nebraska. I mean, these kids are going to get hurt. You might as well get the plug in now. So I don’t blame them at all.

But the way it was just presented was really cheesy. It was just a plethora of local television commercials. In fact, the entire halftime show was just one long, 20 minute commercial break and I saw so many back to.

Austin Anderson: Back, back.

Matt Tompkins: To just and they would cut back to the field, but it would be a shot at the field, and then they would cut down to the field with this pre-recorded paid advertising.

So they had like somebody from Nfm there with the guy on the sideline and he’s like, so tell us why Nebraska Furniture Mart is so amazing.

And then he would just do his, you know, obviously rehearsed lines and like the guy that they had from Nfm and I love him Nfm. But it’s not a knock on Nfm at all. Like, I mean, I love all their stuff because they.

Austin Anderson: Don’t even need to do that. They’re just doing that to support.

Matt Tompkins: They’re just doing it to support. So it’s not a knock on them. But whoever it was that was doing their public relations, he reminded me of like, you know, those inflatable arm guys they have at like, car lots. Yeah, wacky inflatable arm guys scare me.

If wacky inflatable arm thing was embodied as a human being, that would be this individual is just was talking like this. So it was just.

Ben Tompkins: The he’s a terrifying looking person you’re saying. Yeah.

Matt Tompkins: So anyhow, we’re watching this and they kept cutting all these local commercials. And that gets to today’s topic. Why are local television commercials so bad?

And I have a hunch a few reasons. Most of I mean, I’m not alone in this, right? Let me just clarify that. Like, because I’m pretty sure everybody sits and just makes fun of these terrible local television commercials when they come on their TV, right?

Austin Anderson: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Ben Tompkins: Don’t watch local television all that much. I feel the same. I mean, not to get off track, but about local radio too, just with all these streaming services and everything, I very rarely plug in and tune in to the local the local networks.

Matt Tompkins: Yep. Well, I’m the same way.

Austin Anderson: But they’ve always been bad since they’ve always been.

Matt Tompkins: And there’s no there’s been no change. Yeah, usually the reason this happens is because what TV stations will do is they’ll say, hey, if you come to an ad budget with us. We’ll produce your commercial for free, right? That’s usually how it starts. And that is my first tip here.

So why are television local television commercials so bad? That is because, number one, you’re letting a news station produce a television commercial. Tell me, what in the world, just because they own video equipment, that’s really the only thing they have in common with, like a marketing company?

Austin Anderson: Yeah, they.

Matt Tompkins: Have no clue how marketing or advertising works. They have. All they have is you’re listening to the people who talk like this and think this is a normal way to talk, and you’re going to let them brand the company.

Austin Anderson: Shoulder pads are still in fashion. Mhm. Coming up tonight.

Matt Tompkins: We can’t have more than one woman on the screen at one time. Like it just is dumb. Like it’s so archaic and backwards. I mean I love I love anything that’s low budget Hollywood which is why I love local news broadcasts because there’s still so just there on the cusp.

Even when they have money, they don’t they still can’t just pull it all together. Yeah. You know, and it’s just fantastic to watch. It’s like watching a train wreck.

Austin Anderson: And walking into one of the buildings is like walking into the.

Ben Tompkins: 1995.

Matt Tompkins: It is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well that’s, that’s if you have people there anymore because somebody like a TV studio now, their new one in Omaha, where we’re based out of our home town here, Omaha, Nebraska. Midwest mindset. It’s super nice. Like it looks like you’re in like,

CNN headquarters. Oh, wow. I know W.o.w. has a new studio. That’s pretty nice. I haven’t seen the finished version. I was there when they were doing construction.

I broke in, stole some things, but I haven’t seen the finished version of it. I would say that the studio that we’re sitting in here now is the next nicest studio in Omaha behind those two, and they spent millions of dollars. I can tell you right now, we did not.

So you don’t have to have a huge budget, I guess is my point, to have a high quality product.

Ben Tompkins: But just because you have a high quality studio doesn’t mean that you know how to produce high quality and effective commercials you.

Austin Anderson: Got to have. It’s like they don’t have anyone that has an eye for it for even for their studio.

Matt Tompkins: So here’s my first tip. When you’re doing a commercial, even if you’re getting it done for free because you know everything, good quality is free, right? That’s that’s we’ve all discovered that to be true, right? Yeah. If it’s free, there’s a reason that it’s going.

Austin Anderson: To last forever.

Matt Tompkins: There’s a reason that hot dog is free, folks. It’s not real meat. But I think the first tip is don’t listen to a television news station when it comes to producing what is going to be a direct reflection of the quality of your product and service. This is a direct reflection of your company. So think of this. The first impression you have or that you give somebody is going to stick with them, likely forever. And so they’re sitting there watching television and they see multimillion dollar First National Bank commercial come on. And then they see a multimillion dollar, you know, Mercedes Benz commercial. Come on. And then they see yours and yours is it’s just it’s hard.

Austin Anderson: To even explain. It’s hard to.

Matt Tompkins: Explain how bad it is without seeing how bad these are. That is going to be what they think of you and your business. And it’s going to be it’s going to cost you so much money in the long run to try and turn that around. Now, I think there are some ways around, like if you use humor, if you’re like, hey, we’re inside, we’re in on the joke with you about how bad this commercial is.

Yeah. Um, but don’t listen to a news station to make the final decision on how you’re portrayed to the rest of the world, because that is, in a lot of ways, it’s it’s permanent.

Ben Tompkins: That back to the point that we had a couple episodes ago of just because you’re good at one thing, just because you’re good at reporting the news, doesn’t mean you’re good at coming up with effective commercials.

Matt Tompkins: I mean, news stations don’t I don’t have a clue how to run a news station. You wouldn’t put me in charge of running a news station. And I would agree with you. I’d be like, I’d be the last choice to do that. But news stations don’t know. They don’t know shit about marketing. They don’t know shit about advertising.

They don’t even know. I don’t even think they know what human beings actually enjoy, just based on the way that they talk. And like, I mean, you can tell I love going to different cities. It’s like every Walgreens and CVS is exactly the same. And every news station, the way they cover the news is all exactly the same. Yeah, the same way they speak the angles, the shots, the cutaways, all of it. It’s like it’s just rinse and repeat.

Austin Anderson: Going to break the mold. Why is everyone why is no one strayed from the format? I don’t get it. I demand answers I don’t understand.

Matt Tompkins: And they’re like, why are our ratings down so much? Let’s blame the streaming services. Yeah, maybe it’s because you’re putting out a quality product and it’s just like the same since 1985, I don’t understand, I really don’t, is it?

Austin Anderson: That is, if you have a commercial made today by a news station, it will look like 1985.

Matt Tompkins: And there are commercials from like 15, 20 years ago that businesses are still using. So we had we were we were meeting with Eric Crouch, we were doing some videos for him and he was telling us about this commercial. He did like 15, 20 years ago.

They’re still using it on the air as a commercial. So like we have like. You know, 25 year old Eric Crouch in these videos with him. And I think Tommie Frazier was in them. Right.

Austin Anderson: And people are going, man, he’s aged.

Ben Tompkins: Wow. He looks really good.

Austin Anderson: Great.

Matt Tompkins: What is the skin care treatment program he’s using? Um, one of my favorites though, because, like, here’s the local news station. They’re going to a they’re going to let they’re going to do two things. They’re going to let you run too far with this. And I’m sorry.

You’re great at running a business. You don’t know anything about marketing yourself. We think we do because we’re like, I know what’s funny, I know what’s entertaining. And if marketing was just that, if it was just coming up with a creative idea or a funny catchphrase, you’d be right.

You’d be great at it. But that’s just 2% of the equation here. And so they let business owners run with these ideas that they they are an expert on marketing advertising would tell them, would coach them and say, listen, here’s here’s the end result of what could happen here if you go this route. How about this option?

Let’s let’s flesh this out before we just do what happened in my favorite local commercial. And then I want to hear about yours. My favorite local commercial features Tommie Frazier.

And I think he’s the owner I don’t know his name of Lebanon Mattress Factory. And so in this commercial and it may still be running today, Tommie Frazier, you know, two time national championship legendary Nebraska football player.

They’re doing the traditional cuts like this mattress is 50% off. This mattress is this, this mattress is this. And then at the end they cut to this notorious scene where it features the owner of Lebda. I assume he’s the owner. Old guy looks like an owner sitting, laying in a bed like pillow behind his head, laying right next to Tommie Frazier in the bed. The owner doesn’t say one line of dialogue.

Austin Anderson: He’s just laying next to Tommie.

Matt Tompkins: Staring at Tommie with the biggest, creepiest smile on his face like. And then Tommy delivers some line, and he doesn’t do it that well. And I don’t blame Tommy. He’s not an actor, you know? He’s just. He’s.

Austin Anderson: Tommy was his line. I forgot protection so bad.

Matt Tompkins: And then after the editor didn’t cut. So then there was like a long pause. So like, Tommy goes like, yeah, stop by my friend Levita today.

And they both look at each other and then it ends. It’s like the long. It’s just awkward. It’s weird. There’s another one I saw last night. It was this guy. Apparently, there was someone at the Nebraska, like, defensive line. He’s. I guess his nickname is the polar bear. Yeah. Polar bear. Yeah. So I’m not familiar with this guy. Kind of the.

Austin Anderson: Albino.

Matt Tompkins: He’s. He’s a white.

Ben Tompkins: Is the.

Austin Anderson: Just.

Matt Tompkins: Polar? Yes. Have you seen this?

Ben Tompkins: Yeah, I’ve seen this one.

Matt Tompkins: Yeah. So this guy. So they have I’m assuming it’s probably because this is what it is to like. And that’s my next my next tip here. You don’t need to be in your own commercial. Like hire a spokesperson. Hire an actor. Come on. We’re cheap. We don’t cost a lot of money. All right. Find someone who’s charismatic within your company. The owner does not need to be in the commercial.

And we see this. I’m assuming I’m making the assumption here. I could be wrong. What I guess happened here is there was like, I’m going to put my wife and my kids in this video. They’re sitting in the living room and there’s this fake snow and they’re fake shaking like it’s cold and it just looks really cheesy.

And then the polar bear jumps up with a horrendous polar bear like head thing with not a mask, but like a mascot. Like a mascot head helmet. Yeah. And he jumps up going, ah. And then you cut to the polar bear who they do this cheesy like he slides up onto the screen. So it’s not to call it animation would be being far too.

Austin Anderson: I’ve got.

Matt Tompkins: He just slides up and he goes, hey, everybody calls me the Polar Bear. And then then I’m like, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. This is the first I’m hearing of this. Like you’re the polar is. Unless your nickname is so synonymous, like, you know, Johnny the Jet Rodgers like, okay, everybody’s calling him the jet for 50 years. Yeah. The polar bear.

Austin Anderson: Yeah. Did you name yourself?

Matt Tompkins: Did anybody validate this nickname? No.

Ben Tompkins: I think it’s the Husker. It’s a Husker football inside the Husker football community. It’s well known. Okay, the thing it’s playing on the, you know, notoriety of Husker football. He’s a Husker football player. So that’s what I think what they’re trying to go for.

Matt Tompkins: But you could do that without the commercial looking like crap. You don’t have to also make a you don’t have to make a crappy commercial. You can have fun with it. I’m not saying you don’t have fun. I’m not saying you use a spokesperson. Like even if it’s really bad acting or it’s just, hey, they’re they’re a famous player or whatever celebrity. We just want them in the commercial. That’s fine. But you don’t have to make it such a low budget thing.

Austin Anderson: I think part of the problem is, is that it’s the the sales, the sales person that’s selling the package, and then they help put together the commercial, even though they know nothing about it. And I only know that because I was with a company and building a marketing department for them.

And one of the local news stations, you know, reached out and same thing, hey, if you buy this many spots, we’ll do your commercial. So then I started going, okay, well, what would the commercial be? And we started going back and forth and she was giving me all these ideas like, okay, yeah, we could do that and this.

But she didn’t know she had no experience whatsoever in, in how to establish shots or what things would look like, like she’s just in that that’s just part of her process. Like you got to sell it, but then she’s got to help, like produce this commercial with no experience.

Ben Tompkins: But I think on the other hand, it’s about I mean, we’ve talked about perception before and we’ve talked about authenticity and the storytelling aspect.

Yes. I think you can easily produce a bad commercial, and it’s totally ineffective and does far more damage to your company than good. But then there’s also a certain level of authenticity and genuineness that comes from these people are a small business trying their best. It’s obviously they don’t have the budget that NFL does or that First National Bank does. So knowing where are you coming from?

What is your attempt like, what are you trying to really do with this and stay within that that stay within that lane because you can be cheesy, low budget, even if it’s not humorous. But if you’re authentic and people believe you, then it can be just as effective as any other commercial.

Matt Tompkins: If you’re if you’re saying we’re in on the joke with you about how low budget this is, you know that that’s true. It is, it is. I think people have in their mind they’re saving.

What I mean, you get a a, I don’t know, 3 to 5 grand around that price. You could probably get a decent production done of a commercial. You’re spending what, 20,000 or more on an ad run, like spend the extra few thousand dollars to have somebody who knows what the fuck they’re doing to produce this thing, because otherwise you’re putting that other 20 plus thousand dollars in the actual ad spend for the schedule at risk.

You can have fun, you can be authentic, you can be cheesy, you can be in on the joke. It doesn’t have to be, isn’t it? To have fly over drone shots like First National Bank or cornfields?

And you don’t have to spend $1 million, but it also doesn’t have to. To be this just crap quality thing. That is, it is far too often it just becomes you become the butt of a joke. You’re not in on the joke with with people. You’re the butt of the.

Austin Anderson: Joke, right? They’re laughing at you, not with you. And then. Yeah, to spend, you know, very little money on a commercial that you’re going to put tens of thousands of dollars behind to push out if like if you really think about it is nuts.

Matt Tompkins: Well, I think and that was my third tip. Like, cheap isn’t cheap and free isn’t free. You know, we’ve talked about how social media people have this misconception.

Well, social media is free, you know, and so I’ll just post on social media. Social media is not free unless your time has no value. So if you’re going to add up the amount of hours you’re going to have to dedicate to social media management on a daily and weekly basis, and then you say, okay, what if you spent that ten, 15, 20 hours a week getting a couple of new clients, like you’re losing a lot of money, so you’re spending money if you’re spending time, that’s just the bottom line.

And so cheap is not cheap. It’s going to cost you far more to take the cheap route in the short term than the than the long the the. If you invest money on the front end, it’s it’s going to pay off dividends in the long run because you’re going to have a video, a commercial that’s going to hold up for years. And so you can put thousands and thousands of dollars behind this thing.

You can really invest in this long term, and then you’re not you don’t risk becoming the butt of the joke. So cheap isn’t cheap. Free isn’t free.

And I would say a bonus kind of tip here, you know, don’t listen to the news stations, hire a spokesperson or an actor or somebody on on camera. Don’t be yourself that we see a lot with business. The owner and he’s on camera. And I’ve been at these shoes. Oh, yeah. Me too. If you think the final take that they actually approved to get into the commercial is bad, just imagine if you saw all the other takes where it’s like, hi, I’m reading a thing in, in front of me. And I am incapable of human emotions. Like. And is that how you want to be represented to the rest of the the the your to all of your potential prospects and customers?

Yeah. I mean, I don’t get that at all. Like you’re doing more far more harm than good.

Austin Anderson: It really is that like the perfect example is Will Ferrell in Talladega Nights where all of a sudden they’re fine, they’re talking, the camera turns on and they’re just like, what am I doing with my hands? Yeah, where do I do it? They just lock up. Well, there’s a.

Ben Tompkins: Level of, you want to be careful in telling people not to be themselves because you do want them to be themselves, but you also want people to be honest with themselves. I think that’s and if you’re honest with yourself, be honest that you shouldn’t be on camera.

You shouldn’t be the person you can hire somebody to represent. Or maybe you are really good on on camera and you can be yourself. You don’t want to be fake. I don’t think that’s the recommendation we’re telling people.

Matt Tompkins: I think it goes back to like the pitch, how they’re selling this because they’re playing to the business owner’s ego when they say, we’ll put you in the commercial. And so as the business owner, we think, oh, me, oh, shucks. Like, really? I don’t know if I could do that.

That’d be cool. And they go home and we talk about it with our spouse and we’re like, they want me to be in a TV commercial, and then they’re not on the.

Austin Anderson: You’re going to be on.

Matt Tompkins: Tv. It’s not on the business owner. I think it’s unfair to put that on the business owner. That is an injustice on the part of their kind.

Austin Anderson: Of being manipulated.

Matt Tompkins: Their they are definitely being manipulated because if the person actually cared about the end result of this video that they’re creating, they would say they would not pitch them to be in it unless they were naturally and naturally could perform, have charisma, and just actually be themselves and read a script on camera if they can. If that’s not their thing, you know, that may not be their jam, that’s fine. You know, there are so many other options because.

Austin Anderson: And it’s hard to, I think, for the sales person that sold it because they don’t want to lose the sale. So even though they might think this person is going to be terrible on camera.

Yeah. They just they go with it and they’re like, no, you’re doing great because they don’t want to say, oh, you’re doing bad. And then have that person go, I’m not on that.

Ben Tompkins: You want them. You want the customer to be honest. You want the people producing it, the business you’re working with that’s producing the commercial, to be honest as well. I mean, honesty is a huge, huge factor in producing effective marketing. Yes.

Austin Anderson: And unfortunately, most honesty in general will hurt some feelings.

Matt Tompkins: And and it’s avoided. And when we when we establish our core values I put like honesty is at the top. It’s number one. And there are a lot of times I’ve had clients where we just like, I don’t think we’re the right fit for you. Yeah. You know, and I’ll help you find what is. But, you know, I think it’s so key.

Austin Anderson: To be able to be able to do that will take you a while though. First, like just over all your years. Yeah.

Matt Tompkins: When I started out, when I first started out like you have to you’re you’re saying yes to everything and you learn really quickly because those clients that you knew, you had a hunch, this isn’t really a good fit. They end up being the whole relationship gets soured in the long run.

And so you learn some hard lessons. Like, I have to be honest with them, you know, it can’t just be about making a quick buck every chance I get. Right. And you’ll make more money in the long term if you commit to that approach.

But yeah, a lot of agencies in marketing, a lot of. A television stations. I think probably 100% of television stations, they do not have the interest, the best interest of the business owner at the forefront of this at all. They just want to make a quick buck. They want to get you to pay for ad time on their station.

They’re desperate for cash because Ben’s only watching streaming services and people aren’t watching local television anymore. You know, I mean that they are desperate to get your money, so they’re going to manipulate you and they’re going to tell you whatever they need to tell you, and they’re going to go back to this old playbook of, listen, it’s free, right? It’s free. You can’t beat that. We’re going to produce for free, and then you’re going to dump 2030.

Austin Anderson: And if it’s terrible, they’re like, well, you know, but you didn’t you were in it.

Matt Tompkins: You were in it. So that’s the reason it was terrible. It’s not on us. You know, if they really gave a shit about the business owner, they really wanted to actually help them increase sales, grow their business.

They would be honest with them and say, listen, like we would love to have you like sample. If you want to be in the commercial, we’d love to have you read some scripts, but we have actors on standby.

You know, a couple hundred bucks, 300 bucks for a day to get this person to come in. They are a professional at doing this, and so they’re going to come across in the best possible way because that’s that’s my last tip here. It’s like kind of a bonus one.

So so far the three we had don’t listen to local news stations. Cheap isn’t cheap. Free isn’t free. And hire a spokesperson or an actor unless you are naturally good at doing that. The last thing is you have to keep the customer. In first place at all times, because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a local TV commercial. Even national commercials make this mistake where they are saying the customer is the hero of this story. The business is the guide here to help them and call them to action. Give them a plan, you know, show them. Here’s what you need to do.

Business owners and you see this on I mean probably 80% of all websites. We make it all about us. And commercials are no different. We make it all about us, the business, and we don’t make it about what our business can actually do for our customers. And that is where you’re going to win. And that’s an easy thing to do. It’s just a mindset shift, right? You know, you have to say the people don’t care about your business.

They just don’t you care about your business, right. You know, that’s because you have to. People don’t care about your business. They care about what you can do, what your business can do for them. Right?

Austin Anderson: Because they just want to know how are you going to help them thrive and survive.

Matt Tompkins: So that’s why you see commercials that you initially you think they don’t make sense, like drug commercials, or it’s just like happy people frolicking in a field. Somebody’s doing, you know, sidewalk chalk, chalk art. And you’re like, what does this have to do with with.

Austin Anderson: Stds.

Multiple People: With what does this have.

Matt Tompkins: To do with shingles? Which, by the way, is it just me or the shingles? Commercial is getting a little bit terrifying these days.

Ben Tompkins: Shingles in general is terrifying.

Matt Tompkins: It’s like they’re really, really very ominous.

Ben Tompkins: One in shingles.

Matt Tompkins: Lays.

Multiple People: In death.

Matt Tompkins: Shingles lay in the darkness. And they could come out at any moment like I’m like. Yeah. But the reason they do that is because what they’re doing is they’re painting a picture of the end result of using that product or taking that drug. That’s what they’re doing, and that’s why they work. And so if you’re if you’re trying to come up with creative ideas, I would just default back to the simple premise.

All right. What is it? What’s the problem your business is solving for your customer. And then how can you paint a picture in any medium, your website, a story you tell, a blog you write, a social media post, a television commercial? How can you paint this picture of that end result of your solution to that problem?

And when you do that, you’re going to win because everybody tries to be cute, funny, creative. And when you’re having a television station, a news station produce it. It’s not going to come across as any of those things.

We’re going to laugh at it, but for all the wrong reasons. And I don’t see a lot of people keeping that that kind of mindset at the forefront.

Austin Anderson: The sales person to a lot of times is the one that’s writing the script. They gather all the information from you and from the website, and then they write it, but they’re like, they’re a sales person. Yeah, that’s their talent, that’s their craft. And then they’re like, they’re just write something. And then because I’ve read them personally with this, I’m like, what is this?

Matt Tompkins: It’s the equivalent of like and we only do this with like marketing and advertising where we think because we just let people do it right, we say, oh, you’re a sales person.

Yeah, sure you do the copywriting. You write the script for this commercial. Yeah. Let’s do it. Like we don’t do that in any other area. I don’t call a plumber to come change my tires. You know, I don’t hire an electrician to come replace my roof, you know, I mean, I, you know, I do hire Ben to build all my human cat trees because he’s good at building human cat. They’re so comfortable, among other things. But the.

Multiple People: Best.

Matt Tompkins: Human cat trees. The new running reference point. I think you’re on the podcast. But yeah, we don’t do that in any. You don’t call a your plumber to perform surgery on you. Why are you letting some person who’s an expert and good at sales do something?

They have no fucking clue what they’re doing. They have none. And that’s why these commercials start off. You have no guidance. They do not have your best interests at heart, and they’re just trying to get your money. That’s really all they’re trying to do. And you.

Austin Anderson: Know what? What I found interesting once when I was working for radio station cluster, is that like, I thought it would be best to have a copywriter who is good at writing commercials and scripts and telling stories. Write them for all the sales agents, you know, so like they do the sale, then that the copywriter gathers it, writes it and does that and then but when it ended up happening, is that a lot of these sales people, they wanted to write the scripts because that was like the fun part.

Matt Tompkins: Everybody wants to be they.

Austin Anderson: Want to be creative. But they weren’t creative. Yeah. So they didn’t want to like, let that.

Matt Tompkins: Even that wouldn’t even go to that because everybody’s creative. Everybody.

Austin Anderson: Yeah you’re right.

Matt Tompkins: But I just don’t know how to write. They don’t know how to they haven’t done any sort of training or practice or anything. They don’t know the rules of the game that we’re playing here. And then that’s what it turns out bad. It’s not that they couldn’t write right. They just don’t know how to write, you know? Yeah. Right.

Austin Anderson: Yeah. No, no I think that yeah that’s. Yeah.

Multiple People: That’s right.

Matt Tompkins: All right. For Austin, for Ben, for Martin I’m Matt Tompkins. Thank you so much for listening to Midwest Mindset. Don’t forget if you want the easy answer, the easy button if you will, to your marketing. It is the easy box. Right now the link is in the show notes.

You can get started for free. You give us 30 minutes. We. Of you 30 days of content. We do know what the f we’re doing and what we’re talking about. So you have that going for you as well.

We are not a news station, but I am going to close out the podcast like this.

Full Written Transcript of The Episode

MATT: The true secret to success in business is not the business plan. It’s not reconciling your books. It’s none of that. No, it’s being delusional in this episode of Midwest Mindset.

We are going to talk about the true secret to success in business having a delusional mindset. Hello and welcome back to Midwest Mindset, the podcast that makes marketing simple and easy to do. My name is Matt Tompkins of Two Brothers Creative, where you can make your marketing easy. With the easy box, you give us 30 minutes.

We give you 30 days of content. I am joined by our producer in the studio, the control room, where he doesn’t do anything all day long. He just pretends to work. Martin McHugh. He’s Irish, we think.

We’re not really sure. We can’t understand him with the accent. He’s a little bit of everything. He’s a little bit of everything. He’s kind of a mutt, I believe is the term.

AUSTIN: I can’t decide if his last name is more of an 80s action hero or villain. Mchugh.

MATT: So, McHugh.

AUSTIN: Yeah, it’s probably like a detective. Yeah, he’s.

MATT: A man who’s also had, like, ten different nicknames. None of them have stuck and people just continue to mispronounce his first name. Nobody can say his first name. Mired it, and you’ll say it to him and say his name is Martin. Oh. Hey, Martin.

AUSTIN: I know every time I practice in the mirror in the morning.

MATT: Austin Anderson is here on the couch, too, along with Ben Tompkins. Austin’s the new, the newbie, the noob, the rookie, the rookie card. You need to get yourself the Austin Anderson rookie card. You worth the money someday. It’s worth the money someday. And that day is not today.

Ben is a self-proclaimed inventor of the human cat tree. He loves to make cat trees or human beings, and cats can intimately spend time together. You can learn more at human cat reorg like you have.

BEN: Never looked at a cat tree and thought, how? How comfortable would that be to crawl that little box?

AUSTIN: It’s all I just connected the dots. It’s all making sense. Now you’re Omaha live sketch where you’re a kitty. Oh, yeah. Yes.

BEN: I don’t remember that.

AUSTIN: That was.

MATT: You blacked out, I think, for that sketch.

AUSTIN: That was, you know, that was the foreshadowing of.

BEN: Human Cat.

MATT: Yeah, exactly. I was trying to explain foreshadowing to my wife the other night.

AUSTIN: Didn’t go over well.

MATT: No, it’s because she gets mad at me whenever we’re watching TV shows or movies. Or I’ll say out loud, oh, she’s going to die. Oh, it was. She did it. And she did.

AUSTIN: The same thing.

MATT: Dude, how did you know? And I’ll go. It’s called foreshadowing.

And then I had to mansplain what foreshadowing was, which, as we both know, by the way, mansplaining is when you explain something to someone else in a condescending tone your mansplaining.

Mansplaining, man, am I mansplaining? Mansplaining? So mansplaining, by the way, is every man knows goes over it very well with women. Women love to have things mansplain to them. You know, if you want.

AUSTIN: To go to bed at night in silence, yes, it’s the best. Do some.

BEN: Mansplaining.

MATT: Do some mansplaining. Yes. That’s. Yeah. She will no.

AUSTIN: Longer talk to you for the night.

MATT: Yeah. It’ll be a week and you’ll hear back. But no, I was trying to explain that to her. I was like, well, that’s where this little this little nugget was brought here, you know, it’s like, oh, the girl had a sliver in her finger.

And in a world or world. And she said, it’ll just push its way out. And that’s how you know how the movie’s going to end, right there in that little moment.

AUSTIN: Right. And I just watched Ghostbusters with my son, and I saw some foreshadowing I never caught before. Bill Murray goes to Sigourney Weaver’s penthouse for the first time, and on her counter is a carton of eggs and a package of Stay Puft Marshmallow. Yes, I.

MATT: Remember that little. That little drop. Yes. Foreshadowing, by the way, nothing to do with foreskin. Totally different topic. We’re not getting into that one.

No, which is another one. Next episode. I’ve been watching this show. It’s like Naked dating, where they have a game show where they all start off naked and you just see their naked bodies slowly. It starts at the waist down and then the waist and then up.

And then, like you eliminate people purely based on looks, purely based on looks. It is the most fantastic reality show I’ve ever seen. It’s some in the UK it was. It’s on HBO Max.

AUSTIN: Is it French?

MATT: It sounds. Oh my God, it’s just like the variety of penises that you’re exposed to. It’s it’s educational really. But I didn’t realize that foreskin was as popular as it is throughout the planet. Oh, yeah. I think we’re kind.

BEN: Of minority there.

MATT: Yeah, we’re hanging in the minority there. I’d be like, you know, but, you know, anyhow, let’s get to marketing and business because we can’t talk about foreskins all day long. Yeah.

BEN: We we we’re sounding like we’re sounding pretty delusional. Don’t be the.

AUSTIN: Foreskin of.

MATT: Your business, Ben. Yeah. Good segway. Yes. Okay, so here is the true secret to to success in business. Because everybody’s searching for this.

And there’s all how many clickbait articles are there out there? They’re like, this is the secret. There’s a Michael J. Fox. Fox got in on this madness with the secret to my success.

Remember that movie in the 80s, a terrible movie? It was a terrible movie. He slept with his aunt. The secret to success in business is. Well, there are a lot of things that factor into like being successful in business.

Most of it is like the boring shit. It’s all the things you don’t want to do that business owners put off. Like, you know, taxes and paying bills and, you know, not racking up credit card debt. There’s all these things you’re reconciling your books and having processes and procedures.

A lot of things we’ve talked about in this podcast, all those things, yes, they’re very important. You need to do those things. But if I had to pick one thing that is the true like secret defining difference that I have seen and noticed between successful entrepreneurs and business owners and those who who don’t make it all the way, would be having a delusional mindset. And what does that mean?

Okay, so all right, 51% of all businesses go out of business in the first 3 to 5 years. All right. By the way, we just celebrated our three year anniversary here at Two Brothers Creative. So we are almost out of the window there. Only a couple more years of this to go, boys, and we’ll be in the top 49%.

BEN: Then we can go out of business our sixth year and set a.

MATT: Whole new oh, we’re going to be in a category of one. Only 6% of all businesses in the United States ever reach $1 million.

AUSTIN: That’s wild to me, by the way. That’s crazy. Yeah. When you first told me that, I was like, that is nuts and so low.

MATT: I don’t know the percentage, but it’s a crazy percentage. It’s like 60, 70 or 80% of all businesses are solopreneur, where it’s just one person in the United States, like, you know, it’s kind of wild to look at those statistics.

But you look at these numbers, like as a business owner, you kind of have to be a little bit delusional to get into business in the first place because, you know, we don’t know those statistics when we get into it. Right?

But we start to feel it right away. We start to feel the pinch. We’re like, oh my God. Like, this is tough. You know, like anybody who’s like gotten into real estate. That’s a perfect, perfect example. So real estate they get their real estate license or realtor. Now I’m going to go out, make $1 million a year. This is going to be easy. It’s going to sell some homes can use my charm, my wit, my good looks and my good smells.

Yes. And what we don’t realize, though, is the average age, the average age for the the age for the average real estate agent in the United States. 60 years old, six zero. The average income under $17,000 a year, that is the average income. So when we get into any business, even if it’s like a solopreneur venture, we’re slapped in the face.

BEN: And it’s like, you.

AUSTIN: Don’t want to know.

MATT: Like those. Did you like that? Slap those? Yeah. It’s not very good one. You’re all for the people listening on audio only. They’ll have the shot. But yeah, like the. We find out really quick how hard it is to run a business that’s in business, let alone profitable, let alone successful, let alone $1 million in revenue. Successful.

So you have to be delusional to a degree. But what I’m talking about is in that path, in that journey, there are things that will happen that are these like gut blows, these just massive blows that any average person, if they’re dealt one of these blows, they would be curled up in the corner of the shoe department at Kohl’s, crying and crying, and would not leave for at least a couple of days.

And they would say, forget this, I’m out, man, this is dumb. I’m going to go back to my job at Kohl’s.

AUSTIN: Live at Kohl’s.

MATT: Department. Yes, I used to work at the shoe department at Kohl’s too. Did you overnights. Yeah, baby. But you have to be able to absorb these blows. Keep calm and carry on as they say. Right.

And then focus on what you know you need to get done. Now when I say delusional, like sometimes we’re delusional, we don’t ignore all the things, okay? We ignore too many things. We’re like, okay, well, maybe you should pay attention to the taxes or the different things you aren’t doing.

AUSTIN: Anything that can result in prison time. Yes.

MATT: Don’t do anything illegal, at least not yet. But you have to have this kind of a the ability to compartmentalize things is what I’m talking about. You have to be able to compartmentalize.

Like I had a week recently where it was like, okay, this was a sequence of real things that happened, got found out. I was told, you’re going to have you owe $90,000 in taxes by the end of the year, which was not expecting it. Turns out it was like a clerical error thing learned. We’re going to have to pay instead of $17,000.

AUSTIN: Wait, how many days did you have to go before you knew it was an error? I just.

MATT: Found out like it was like over a month, 5 or 6 weeks.

AUSTIN: Now. So you had to you that was your shoulders for it till you found out. Oh yeah.

MATT: That out how you’re going to pay $90,000 in taxes you didn’t expect. The $17,000 payment is actually $67,000. You’re going to have to pay us for this other thing, you know, and then you have swings. Like most business owners, we’re going to have that natural churn with clients where it’s just nothing you can control. It just happens.

And so you might have a month where you have like a 10 or $12,000 swing in a matter of a few days. It’s like all of a sudden poof. And so you get dealt with these blows. Like literally by the end of the week, I was like talking about it. And people would look at me like, are you okay?

Because that really sounds like a rough week. And I’m like, I’m good. Like, I mean, at some point you just kind of kind of laugh at it because it’s ridiculous. You know, it’s these numbers are so ridiculous.

BEN: Yeah, there’s a level of delusion, but then also a level of ignorance that’s mixed in that. Yeah, that’s.

AUSTIN: What I was thinking like about.

MATT: Willful delusion, not ignorance.

AUSTIN: Well, to get started, like being ignorant of those numbers, like 6% only make it. Yeah. You know, like like not knowing that stuff before you jump into business. I think not knowing. Good. Because then you’d be like, why would I even try? Why even.

BEN: Bother? And I think in our history, when the other, you know, ventures that we’ve gone through with, like playing in a band and you doing stand up, I mean, you have a big sense of ignorance. Not that you’re choosing to ignore, but you just are entering this field and you don’t know anything about it and you’re just going ignorance blindly. Ignorance is bliss until you figure it out.

But if you had known everything that you know now, maybe not because the company’s gotten to be pretty successful, but all of the turmoil that you’ve gone through when you first started the company, that would probably push a lot of people away. Yeah, right off the bat.

So you have to have this sense of ignorance to a degree starting out, which I would I would classify underneath that umbrella of delusion.

MATT: Like, yeah, I’m talking about like it’s like it’s like an optimism, optimism versus pessimism.

Like you have to be like a real realistic optimist or whatever the the term is like you have to have you can’t ignore reality, you know, and like we just two brothers created the first time around when we were doing the TV show Omaha Live. Like, I didn’t even know what an entrepreneur was, let alone that I was one.

BEN: I still don’t know how to spell it.

MATT: It’s a hard word. Entrepreneurialship why is that even a word? We have entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial ism, entrepreneurial ship.

AUSTIN: They just keep adding things. They just.

MATT: Keep adding.

BEN: More vowels.

MATT: It’s dumb. You know, entrepreneurs are struggling with just entrepreneur, let alone all these other extra words but or letters. But entrepreneur being an entrepreneur, I didn’t know what it was. I remember the first year I didn’t pay any taxes or I didn’t take I didn’t keep track of anything on my books and I had to pay like seven.

We had to take out a loan, like a line of credit on the house to pay this like $27,000 tax bill, because I just didn’t have a clue. I didn’t even know that was a thing. You know, I’m like getting.

And so you learn a lot of these lessons really quick. And like the first time around, that was probably two and a half, three years of doing that wasn’t like we went out of business because we were really just doing a we had a few clients, and then we were doing video production for, and then the television show was the main driver. We were doing television show did not pay Dick. I mean, it paid $500 per episode. Gross, dude. And not taxes for a weekly 30 minute television show.

AUSTIN: Out of work so much you put into that.

MATT: Yeah. So much work is but mine.

You’re right. Like the first time around. Like so much learning experience. Looking back now, I mean, a we learned how to produce a high quality show on a freaking shoestring, non-existent budget. Yeah. Which we now translate to how we help clients because, you know, we’re going to charge them a much more fair rate than what you’re going to see at any other marketing agency, production, content creation.

So that was a huge learning curve, learning how to lead and motivate teams because we had to by the end of the seventh season, we had 24 total people volunteering their time every week, the equivalent to each of them having a 15 to 20 hour part time job.

Yeah, and they were not getting paid.

And it was just so you had to learn ways like, how do we get people invested in this idea so that it’s a team effort, you know, how do you reward, how do you incentivize when you don’t have money and you learn that money isn’t even the big incentivize either?

AUSTIN: What do you do in that in that case? Because I think that’s a good example.

MATT: So a I started by always proving I’m willing to do everything I’m asking you to do. So I’m going to show up every time we shoot. I’m going to help tear down sets, break down lights.

I’m never going to be like when we played in a band. I’m probably the only lead singer of any band that ever existed that actually did most of the.

I would go pick up the trailer, then go pick up the sound equipment, then pick up our bass player. You didn’t have a car to drive.

AUSTIN: Your own.

MATT: Roadie? Yeah. Then I would drive home.

We would load up all the gear. I would be the one leading the setup of all the equipment. Then we’d do a four hour gig, and then we’d have a four hour take down and tear down of all the equipment. Then we drive back just so I would be like, all right, I’m going to do this.

AUSTIN: And that’s why it’s important. When you started a band to be delusional. Yes. Because you did not know, know that you were going to be doing that after playing a show and then have to do all that work. You know, that’s that’s you’re up all night.

MATT: Oh, it’s relentless. Like, and you’re young, you’re drinking like, I don’t know how we did it because I mean, I have like a beer and I’m hungover for two days now. I don’t know how we did that back in the day. I mean, Ben had so many women coming after him as the drummer. So many.

BEN: They’re still coming.

MATT: They’re still coming after him. There’s a lady in Grand Island. She knows she’s the leopard lady. Remember her? Yeah. Oh, wow. The leopard lady.

He used to go around interviewing 80s tribute bands. And this is in like the early 2000, late 2000. And she was on to first our bass player, then Ben. And she was she was relentless, like, you’re going to sleep with me. And she’s like 30 years older than us. I mean, like, not remotely.

BEN: Wore leopard.

MATT: Pants. She wore leopard pants everywhere she went. She was a leopard lady.

AUSTIN: That was her. You know, that’s an example of her modifying her business strategy. It was probably main bands. And then she just. I’m just going to target band bands.

MATT: From now on, I’m going to target bass players of tribute bands. She found her niche. And then and then you went after the bass player. She’s like, nope. She had to make the pivot, made a pivot. All right, I’m going after bass players and and tribute bands. Yeah. Looking at the.

AUSTIN: Statistics, who gets asked less to get laid?

MATT: Oh, it’s the bass player. It’s not working. So you have to have this like it’s your eyes on this dream. Like you’re a dreamer. If you’re an entrepreneur, if you’re a business owner, you’re a dreamer. I think everybody’s a dreamer, I think everybody I mean, nobody out there, I think a true delusional like sociopath and like the scary way is a non dreamer. Like, I mean, everybody has a dream, right?

Everybody has a good idea. And I think really it’s just it’s can you can you compartmentalize all these different things and then can you go through really challenging horrible experiences? Let’s be honest. Like the TV show is like I mean, nearly ruined my marriage. Like by the end of the show, the last episode, I mean, it was like at this, like, okay, we’re at a crossing point, like, this is.

AUSTIN: Like, how many hours do you think you put on in a week? A week on average?

MATT: Well, I mean, we edited the TV show at night, so 30 minute show. So you had a I mean, I would have 42 hour straight editing marathons at least once a week where I would just edit. I mean, I was doing a lot of drugs at the time, so that’s why that’s why that’s not quite as impressive as it sounds.

I mean, it was bad, but no, that’s how I would like maintain that. And then so yeah, I was going through a severe opiate addiction at the time of doing that, which was taxing. I don’t even know how I survived that, because I did that whole show at maybe like 30 or 40% capacity, that entire most of that show.

Because just because when drugs like you’re going through the withdrawals and you’re on and you’re off and it’s just like, so it’s so taxing on your body. Like I was nowhere close to 100% as a person. So yeah, it was, I would say probably 80 to 90 hours a week because, I mean, we would film like all day Saturday, all day Sunday, sometimes during the week. And then there was like the last season of the show, like, and then you.

AUSTIN: Had writer’s groups. Yeah. You had that.

MATT: For, well, for half for three of the. Yeah, two and a half of those years. I was also hosting radio shows for three hours during the day,

Monday through Friday. Yeah, I did a news talk show, and then I was doing mornings on suite 98 five. So for the last season. So I don’t know how I did it, you know, I mean, having that team I think is crucial. It was you know, it started off as just literally me and Ben and our cousin Adam with just like some one camera for lights.

And that was all we had basement of our dad’s church. And then you build out from there, you grow from there. And so I think you have to be able to. Learn. You have to be delusional in a in a constructive way.

You have to keep your eye on the dream and be like, yeah, I know this looks impossible. I know people are going to tell me I’m crazy, but I’m just going to keep pushing forward, which is what people told us. They were like, you can’t do a show for 500 bucks a week.

MATT: You’re not going to be getting any ratings. And, you know, being number one rated show in its time slot and ended up everybody thought the television station produced it, and they had nothing to do with the production. We did it literally out of our basement. So I think you have to have that.

But you also you have to learn through those failures and setbacks and then apply them to the to the next leg, the next venture, which is what we did here with the, the, the, the version of our company here today is applying all these things and lessons that we’ve learned over the years to today. But I think no matter what stage of success or where your business is at, you’re always going to have these setbacks, these blows that seem devastating.

And some people can take them on and compartmentalize them in a healthy way and be like, okay, I can’t do anything about a $90,000 tax bill today. I don’t think I ever could do anything about $90,000 tax bill just.

AUSTIN: Run like Wesley Snipes did.

MATT: And then you have two options. Like I could compartmentalize it and I can just pretend like it doesn’t exist forever. And it turns into a big problem that turns you into that statistic of 51% that go out of business.

That’s not the answer. Or you can compartmentalize it in a healthy way. And that’s what we’re talking about here today. And I think that’s the key takeaway here is compartmentalize things in a healthy way, where it’s like, I’m not going to let this derail me from my focus of where I need to be paying attention, because if you look at it and you play this game of a having a scarcity mindset where it’s just, oh God, how am I going to do this?

How am I have $90,000 taxable? I don’t know how to taxable. Well, then you think, well, I need to hire this new person to expand. I can’t hire a new person if I’ve got $90,000 tax bill. And then then you can’t expand and then you lose this business opportunity and then it’s going to have this compounding effect. And so if you you have to be able to compartmentalize it not forever to deal with it later accordingly.

Because you can’t control these events. They’re going to happen. They’re going to get. And that’s why that week I just laughed. I’m like, this is ridiculous.

BEN: Quite maniacally, I just heard this very scary laughter coming out of Matt’s office was a number of minutes. That’s what that was crying. Is he laughing? I’ll come back later. It’s a.

AUSTIN: Combination. It’s a.

MATT: Combination. Combination. The laughter.

AUSTIN: You know, when you were talking earlier about dreams. You know, these people that have everyone dreams. And then one component is taking action on that dream. So what would you say to someone that you know has all these dreams? They talk about their dreams. We’ve all know these people, but they’ve never, ever took that first step, that first, just putting it into action. This is a.

MATT: Great this is great. And I told this to my dog the other night and when I was talking to them. You’re going to notice the thing I talk to my dogs like there’s there are people that say, this is $1 billion company. This is $1 billion idea. This is $1 million company. This is the idea.

There’s no such thing until you have $1 billion offer. Until you have $1 million offer, it is not worth anything. If you have a great idea, that’s awesome. But guess what? Everybody on this planet has a great idea. Literally everybody on this planet has a great idea. Ben and I came up with Celebrity Farts in a bag 15 years ago. Yeah, and it became a thing. Everybody laughed at us at the time.

AUSTIN: That’s amazing. Yes.

MATT: What is Brad Pitt’s fart smell like? Oh, it’s like potpourri, but no, but celebrity farts in a bag aside.

AUSTIN: I think, like, wood chips and musk.

MATT: Yeah, that’s exactly what Brad Pitt’s farts smell like. Thank you. Yes. So everybody has a great idea. The difference is, are you willing to actually fucking do it?

Are you willing to actually step up on that stage in front of that crowd? Are you willing to take out that loan for your business?

Are you willing to actually share your idea with somebody else in the first place? A lot of people have these great ideas. We leave them up here and we don’t even we don’t even verbalize them. We just we’re terrified of the result or.

AUSTIN: Even what people will say to you about it. Yes. You know. Yep. So, I mean, what would you say to someone that is just so worried about what people think? They don’t want to do their idea because they don’t want anyone to say something bad about them.

MATT: Then I would say for them, don’t start a business because you’re not ready. You know, I think, I think there are these key fundamental qualities like that. Compartmentalizing is one we’re talking about today, but I think, you know, having the ability to have this I don’t know this.

Like I don’t give a shit attitude where like, you care more than anything, but you kind of have to not care about anything. Yeah, you know, that’s true. And you have to, like, step up and be like, I’m willing to, like, put myself out there.

And I think that’s part of, like, us growing up, you know, Ben and I grew up with in theater musicals, and we had a lot of performance growing up. And so being on the radio, when I got to the radio, I remember showing up and I was like. I never saw it as being on a big stage in front of tens of thousands of people.

I was like, I was meeting these two people in a room. I just trying to make each other laugh. Okay, that’s easy. Let’s do this. You know? And so I think you have to have that kind of delusional mindset. Sometimes it comes easier than for some people, than others, but you have to embrace it. And you have to know which which choice you’re going to make. Because the stakes are you compartmentalize it.

You know, if you don’t compartmentalize it and you just let it overwhelm you, it’s going to destroy you in real time. If you compartmentalize it and you don’t deal with it in a constructive, healthy way, it’s going to slow you, destroy you over time. But the other option is you make the choice to compartmentalize it, apply it to what you’re doing, face it head on, and that’s where you win, you know?

But it is a skill set. Just being able to take the blows and not let them for real, turn you into a freaking wet blanket on the on the ground.

AUSTIN: I think it comes with age and time to being able to like, you know, taking because when you first take blows, you’re like, you do want to sleep in a cold. You know what?

MATT: You know what it is like what you’re talking about. So I have this theory. Everybody has a crucible in their life they go through. And a crucible is like a crucible is like an extreme test. I think in the definition is like an extreme test of, like, fire and steel. Like they get graphic with this description of this test.

AUSTIN: The dark night of the soul. Yes. What I’ve heard.

MATT: And so.

AUSTIN: Like in a movie I talk about.

MATT: That. But when I went through my addiction and hit the lowest lows, you can get like literally praying to die, just be killed because it was just torture.

Yeah, I look back at that now as, as a blessing, you know, it’s like that is the that was the best thing that could have happened to me, because that was my crucible. And coming out the other side of it, it gave me all this like perspective and wisdom and things I didn’t really have before.

Like I didn’t have an understanding of of grace for other people or myself I didn’t have I wasn’t able to empathize with people in situations and think, okay, well, I’ve been through something, not the same thing, but maybe I should be open to understanding this.

You know, understanding and appreciating what you have and what you’re working towards, and that the risks are or the rewards are worth the risks, you know, so I would not have been able to host radio shows, a talk show for three hours a day. If not, you know, because that was right when I decided to get sober and clean in 2016.

Oh yeah, and start a news talk show of all years to try and stay sober in news talk radio. Yeah, dude. Oh yeah, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. That was a that was.

But I made it through and it’s like but I look back at that as like that’s a blessing. You know I, I’m saying it’s like all shits and giggles now. But when you go tough it’s just it’s always a challenge.

But. Right. You’re right. It’s not even an age thing. It’s just the wisdom of going through these crucibles and these challenges that define you like that is truly where you discover who you are. And if you’re if you’re cut from the cloth to do this because you.

AUSTIN: Can look back on that and go, I got through this insane addiction. Like I can get through anything, basically, because that’s extreme. So if you can make it through that, then you know other things that come your way in business or life in general. You’re like, all right, you can look back at those past wins, you know, whether small or big, and be like, I can I can do this.

MATT: I mean, if I can go from mainlining cocaine in the bathroom of a Casey’s General store to where we are today, I think anything is possible.

BEN: Where now you’re at a Kwik Trip moving on up these days.

MATT: I’m at a quick trip because this is Casey.

AUSTIN: You’ve only hit rock bottom if you go to Mega mart.

MATT: What has happened to Casey? That’s a topic for another episode. Oh, God. Oh my God, I don’t know, but the original Casey’s are doing. They’re still solid, but all the new ones. What the fuck?

AUSTIN: I actually before they built a new cases in Wahoo because I lived in Wahoo for a while. They had an older one and I actually got them a new roof because no one they wouldn’t fix it. Every time it rained, it poured inside. They had buckets everywhere and I just. And I like the ladies, like the people that work there. I’m like, I’m going to get you a new roof. So I would call corporate and I’d be like, I can’t believe you treat your employees like this. You don’t even fix the roof. I’d send pictures. And then it took about two weeks. They came out and new roof on. Yeah. There you go.

MATT: Good job. Austin. Thanks. We’re ending this episode on a high note.

AUSTIN: Guess what? I’d go in there. They give me free pizza. Really? Yeah. Ladies.

MATT: And their pizza is not bad. Yeah, yeah, it’s not bad.

Not too shabby. Thanks for joining us here today on Midwest Mindset. If you want to make your marketing easy, there is no easier solution than the easy box. It’s as simple as this.

You give us 30 minutes, we give you 30 days of content and we’ll post it for you on all your socials, all your all the socials, you know, the socials where your kids are. You’re afraid to go because of what your grandma might say. My grandma thinks she’s sending a message to someone.

She’s just posting things. I think my uncle got on there and he thought he was asking Google a question. He was really just on Facebook. It’s all it’s always just kind of a gamble what’s going to happen.

But if you want to promote and grow your business, you need content. You need it out there on a daily basis. Quality content that. Reflects you and your unique perspective, experience and success. And that’s what the box does. We take it all off your plate for you 30 minutes, 30 days of content. Get started now the link is in the show notes. You can click on the link. I’m told with your fingers or Ben, any other.

BEN: Body part.

MATT: Any other body part.

AUSTIN: And once you get that Elon Musk brain chip, you just think about it. Yes, if you don’t die from.

MATT: It pretty soon, well, let’s hope that doesn’t happen.

Full Written Transcript of The Episode

MATT: Just because you’re good at one thing does not mean you’re good at everything. This is important for every business owner to accept and understand. We’re talking about that and why perception is all that matters in marketing in this episode of Midwest Mindset.

Welcome back to Midwest Mindset, the podcast that makes marketing easy to understand and simple to do. I’m your host,

Matt Tompkins. Here in the Big Chair. We have a newly revamped new and improved Midwest mindset. We have branded bottles of water. We have branded cups to pour the water into. We are not conserving plastic.

BEN: We made that water ourselves.

MATT: Yes, it’s a filtration process and I’m actually doing right now while I’m hosting the show. Oh, yes. All right. All right, so we need to introduce everybody who is here on the show.

Everybody from the Two Brothers Creative Ensemble here. So first up, we have the man who’s behind the scenes. He’s running the switchboard. He’s editing videos. Nobody can pronounce his name.

He’s the man who’s never had a golden tan. He soars through the digital skies like a mythical creature of old. He’s a master of puns. Really bad puns. They’re pretty bad.

They’re pretty bad. They’re really bad. He doesn’t just edit videos. Edit videos. He conjures them up with his weaving his digital skills, leaving you spellbound. And if you haven’t, if you haven’t caught on yet.

He is named after Merlin the Wizard and his name is Myron McHugh. Myron in the control booth there. We didn’t give Myron a microphone, so you’re not going to hear from him, and that’s intentional. Next up we have. Next up we have the the new guy on the crew. He’s the the newbie. What do we do?

What do they call him like the rookie. He’s the rookie fish. He’s the fresh fish. Fish. Oh yeah.

BEN: They say in prison. Yeah.

AUSTIN: Better than fresh.

MATT: Meat. And this is similar to prison. This this company working here at least.

So yes. We now present you a legend. He dwells on a dwells on a homestead where apparently he has chickens, ducks, pigs, dogs, rabbits who all dance in perfect harmony. I think he has some kids there too, right? Yes. I mean, you wrote this, so you just left your kids out of the mix?

AUSTIN: I did.

MATT: I did care more about the pigs than the chickens. He’s no ordinary farmer. He’s a masked maestro of multimedia. He’s a video editing virtuoso.

And you can tell him Austin wrote his own intro because you’re really talking yourself up here. Wow. You’re like a month into this gig and you’re just like, I’m setting the bar high.

AUSTIN: I was I was watching old videos of, you know, like in the day from A Knight’s Tale and they really just talk up the intro. So I just went on, okay.

MATT: Yeah. He’s also he this is true. He actually challenged Piers Morgan to a shirtless showdown once. And I don’t know that the world, anyone in the world wants to see that, I don’t know.

AUSTIN: I probably have the only copy because it’s not online anymore. It’s on VHS. Is it really just.

MATT: You standing next to like, an image of Pierce?

AUSTIN: No shirt off. So. Oh man, this is a story. But anyways, I ripped off my shirt in front of 11.5 million people on America’s Got Talent and Nick cannon goes, he’s getting naked and he’s pointing. So I have a picture of my shirt open with Nick cannon pointing at me.

Oh, wow. And then and then I slapped my belly. I was like, you want some of this, Pierce? It all happened right before I went on stage.

The producer handling me said, by the way, Piers Morgan doesn’t like stand up comics before I perform live. No good on America’s Good Motivator channel. And then. So that’s where it all went down. Well, he’s.

BEN: British. Yes.

MATT: So next up we have the the other brother of the two brothers. There are two brothers here, two brothers, and the other one is named. Well, I’ll get to his name here in a second. He’s a man who adores his cat. He swears he’s plotting world domination.

Dominion, dominion over the domination. I think that’s how it works. That’s my dominion. Yeah. Um, this cat is. I think Ben is, too. He is the ability to fall asleep anywhere at any time.

That’s true. Watch out for that. If there’s a moment of silence, he’s probably taking a nap. You can also bend his fingers all the way back like a fresh pretzel. Yes, that’s.

BEN: That’s how I got my wife to go on a second date.

MATT: Yeah, I’m sure that’s. What did it give it up for Ben Tompkins, everybody. Ben Tompkins, Austin Anderson, Maya and McHugh.

BEN: I feel like my intro wasn’t anywhere near as hyped up. It was. It was pretty. Well, Ben.

AUSTIN: Here’s the thing.

MATT: It gets weird in here. I didn’t want to read all of it. Just got really intimate and weird. And I’m like.

BEN: Ben wrote his though.

AUSTIN: To ask him what he wanted in it.

MATT: Okay. All right. Yeah, he’s a man who pinned a rock opera with highlight that highlights the very moment dinosaurs met their fiery end. That’s actually true.

BEN: That’s what he told me to put in there. That’s true. Why would you not include that, Matt? Why would you skip over that part?

MATT: Because that’s all you ever talk about. Is this musical maestro about dinosaurs until you release it to the world. We can’t talk about it.

BEN: Lovelorn dinosaurs.

MATT: Let’s get to what matters here today. We’re talking about. Just because you’re good at one thing doesn’t mean you’re good at everything. All right, I want to ask you guys a question here. Herschel Walker, Herman Cain, Ben Carson. Yeah. What do they all have in common?

BEN: Um, they’re they’re all Republicans. Nope.

MATT: That’s not it.

AUSTIN: They all had one profession and then went into politics. Nope. That’s.

BEN: Come on, guys, they’re all black.

MATT: Ben.

BEN: Well they are.

MATT: Yeah, I guess that’s true, but no, no, they are all good at one thing, and they try to do something else and were horrible at it. All right. Do you remember like Herschel Walker he just ran for. These are all politicians. But Herschel Walker ran for office. He’s an incredible football player.

AUSTIN: Oh, yeah.

MATT: I would not want him running a McDonald’s, let alone a state in our country. Herman Cain, Ben Carson, remember, Herman Cain, he is the godfather’s guy.

Yeah, yeah, Ben Carson, a neurosurgeon. He’s a neurosurgeon. And you think we attach this false credibility to people when they’re really good at one thing? We do it to ourselves as well.

So with Ben Carson, he’s a perfect example. He’s a neurosurgeon. He must be smart at everything. You know, we do this with money. People have lots of money.

They must be good at everything. Let’s listen to their advice.

That usually does not end well. It doesn’t end well. And so we do this with ourselves as well. When it comes to running our business, and especially with marketing our businesses, because we assume, okay, well, I got a video to go viral or I got a bunch of views or likes or, hey, I’m on all these social platforms.

Obviously, I know what I’m doing when it comes to marketing or even just in this general business sense.

We say, okay, well, I had a good idea here. That means every other idea or business venture I’m going to have. Like, I’m really good with this cat pet store that I have. I’m going to open up a Taco Bell. Like, those are two completely different things. They require two completely different skill sets. Although now that I say that, I wonder if Taco Bell is.

AUSTIN: Makes their tacos from cats.

MATT: Because if you spell taco backwards, it’s oh cat, oh cat.

AUSTIN: Oh that’s true.

MATT: Okay, okay.

AUSTIN: Sometimes I mean I love talking about sometimes I go there, I think it smells like cats.

BEN: You’re not allowed near my cat anymore. Now, Matt, which one of those was the pizza guy?

MATT: Herman Cain? He was the Godfather’s. He had the whole 999 thing. It was like 9%. So I don’t even remember what it was. But like, yeah.

BEN: That was like a tax plan.

MATT: We do this all the time. It’s hard not to do it to yourself because you get good at one thing and especially if you’re like really, really good at one thing, you know, our egos get in the way.

And so we get this false confidence in ourselves. And this happens a lot with like just running a business because business owners will chase down ideas and we will not let them go, even though we know that it’s a bad idea, we know it’s a losing idea.

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and say, listen, this didn’t work right.

AUSTIN: You think you have to be honest with yourself about what you’re good at and then just be able to say no? Because I think that, like in Herschel Walker, I bet someone came up to him and said, you know what? You would be great in politics. And then they start going, you know what?

I think I would be too, you know? So if you have people approaching you and asking you to do other ventures, you kind of got to be have your ego in check and then also be able to say, no, this is what I’m good at. I’m going to I’m going to stick with this. But then that’s part of it.

BEN: Part of it also is that some of those, like in those cases, some characteristics that help you build a good business might apply to being a good politician also.

So it’s easy to maybe buy into that idea. I don’t know if with football with Herschel Walker, I mean, I guess the discipline and the dedication that it takes to be a standout athlete might you could apply some of those characteristics to, to politics.

But with running a business, you saw that with Trump everyone equates he’s this great, great business, this great business person.

That means he can run the country, because running the country is just like running a business. So of course there’s some things that are not true, but there probably are things that are true about that too. I mean, well.

MATT: There are characteristics and qualities that make any one person successful, like, you know, okay, I’m going to have dedication. Discipline is probably the hardest trait for any success in any industry. And anything you do, who’s going to have the discipline to get up every day, you know, two in the morning and work out and every single day you’re obviously obviously been the.

AUSTIN: Example that say that. Two discipline is the hardest thing to master in all areas of life.

MATT: It is. So yeah, there are core characteristics, but this gets to something else that’s at the core of marketing, and it’s truly what marketing is all about. And it is the number one reason that I love marketing because marketing is life. And so you mentioned Trump is perfect example.

All that marketing is, is perception, right? So in the sense of business, like you, you’re good at one thing. That doesn’t mean you’re good at everything.

And it’s going to be a major mistake if you’re a business owner to just assume I’m good at everything. Right? Well, I’m good at even the thing you’re good at. Oftentimes business owners are terrible at for themselves, like for marketing.

Marketing people who are really good for doing marketing for other clients are usually bad at it for themselves. Right? They don’t walk the walk, but they don’t follow up with what they tell people to do. But marketing is all about perception.

And so we we have these perceptions. And politics is just pure marketing. That’s all the marketing is. The facts do not matter and they never have mattered. We always try and convince ourselves that the facts matter, but they don’t. And so Trump is a perfect example of a guy who he literally checks off every.

Every single law in the 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing, which is a great book. You should read that if you want fantastic about marketing. He checks off every single one. It doesn’t matter whether or not he’s really a billionaire, whether or not he’s really a success, whether or not he’s gone bankrupt several times, which he has. You know, it doesn’t matter.

All that matters is the perception. And he established that perception. He was in the law of marketing. He was first in the mind of his prospect, his prospect being the American citizens.

And he did that with The apprentice. So he was first in the mind as a success, as a billionaire, as a person who makes the big decisions, makes the big calls in the big chair at the top of the building. And that’s why people attach that to him.

AUSTIN: With his name on the.

MATT: Building forever. Yeah, with his name literally on the building in gold. That’s that’s why people will always you will never shatter that. And that’s important thing to understand. When you’re on the inside looking out, you need to be able to look at yourself and be honest.

Because let’s be honest, it’s just you, right? You know, you suck at something, Austin. You know you’re good at something. Austin.

BEN: That’s what this is really. This is this.

AUSTIN: Is where it pivots. This is where.

BEN: We have to talk to you.

MATT: We need to talk. You’re really. You’re fired, you know? So. So it’s important to be, like, honest with yourself internally because we let our egos get in the way.

Right. And we know like, I mean, last night I was having a conversation with my two dogs, Burley and Teddy, and I’m like, they were making some great points. You know, it’s like just about observations in my life about, okay, maybe I’ve heard.

AUSTIN: This thing with the Son of Sam, too. When I read his book, I just, I just.

MATT: I just haven’t killed anybody yet. No, but I do. I have full I don’t care. I talk to myself out loud, I have full conversations, I talk to dogs. And. But it’s just so therapeutic because I’m like, you know what?

You’re right, Burley. Like I did let my ego get in the way when I made that decision. Like, that’s a good observation and you have to keep yourself in check.

And if you’re not being honest with yourself, you can’t be honest with anybody else. You’re not going to be honest about your business. It’s just going to hurt you more than anything.

So there’s that kind of internal component. But externally it’s important to understand marketing is all about perception. And this proves the point.

Like on the outside looking in, the public doesn’t know shit. They don’t know anything. They see Herman Cain, they see Ben Carson, they see Herschel Walker. I’m sorry. I’m just thinking of all the crazy things, you know?

But they attach the perception of success and authority. And once you’ve been, once you’ve done that in your first in the mind of your prospect, you cannot shake it. And that’s why you’ll never shake somebody who loves Trump. You’ll never shake somebody who loves Biden.

You’re never going to win an argument based on the facts, because the facts don’t matter. Not just in politics or news, just in marketing, anywhere. The facts only matter internally when you’re looking at the numbers, like when you’re marketing, all that matters is the perception.

And this proves like, you know, you you. Just because you’re good at one thing doesn’t mean you’re good at everything. But to the public, they can’t distinguish. They can’t distinguish what you’re actually good at.

AUSTIN: A really good example that popped into my mind is that the first televised debate of all time between JFK and Nixon, Nixon was hideous and sweating and had fake makeup and JFK charismatic, handsome, all that.

And then right after the debate, there was newscasters and people going, oh, well, this has never happened. We just we just elected our president after the first debate because the perception was like, this guy’s got it all. Jfk has all the looks, you know, it’s just perceived. And it took him.

MATT: A lot of work an assassination, a president stepping down for Nixon to even have a chance of getting back to where he wanted to get it is so much work to try and change the narrative that is already established in a prospect’s mind. So much work, so much money. Like, you know, everybody says like, oh, first, first impressions matter, first impressions last forever. Like that is true.

And it’s true in marketing, especially on social media, like the content you put out, the post, you put out the perception of you that you put out.

You know it matters because that’s the perception somebody may have of you forever, forever, and you may never be able to change that.

So when you’re thinking like, I’ll just do it the cheap way, the quick way, I’ll just do this cheap quick thing, throw it up, have it be done, I don’t care. We’ll, you know, learn how to fly the plane later.

Well, you may not have a plane later. And you’re going to literally show your sell yourself short out of potentially millions and millions of dollars in the long run here.

Just because you’re not you’re not sticking to this core element. Perception is all that matters. Perception is everything.

And you have to be honest with yourself. I think internally, like just because you’re good at one thing doesn’t mean you’re good at everything.

And we see like we’ve seen this, I mean, just not in like with clients we work with necessarily, but just across the board.

You have so many people think that they’re great at marketing and they don’t really even understand what marketing is. They don’t even understand how important it is that it’s the core, essential foundation to growing any business.

AUSTIN: But when you’re talking with someone, a client or a business owner and you’re trying to explain marketing and you know that they don’t really get it, but they feel like they do, what is it? What do you say to them to kind of.

MATT: It’s you have to describe it in like you have to kind of it is hard because it’s like we see all the tactics of marketing. We see all the tactics, like social media is like Facebook is a tactic. Instagram is a tactic.

Social media is a tactic. Seo is a tactic. All these things are tactics. And what gets what muddies the water. As we start talking about we, we mistake a tactic for a strategy and we think, oh, this. What’s your what’s your marketing strategy?

Well, I’m posting on Facebook three times a week. Well, that’s not a strategy. That’s just something you’re doing. That’s an action you’re taking. And so it is tough because people also assume marketing is your sales. People think, I’m going to spend money on marketing,

I’m going to make money, and it’s just going to come in like I’m going to have customers walking in the door. But if you don’t have sales, if you don’t have a way to onboard said this or take advantage of this pump that has been primed.

That’s what marketing really is. Marketing is there to get you discovered, build awareness, build relationships, and trust. It is priming the pump so that you can make the sales.

That is really what marketing is. And so, you know, that’s why that perception is what matters. You know, the overarching, you know, key component there.

But people often mistake it. Is this something that it just isn’t. And that’s I think that hurts businesses probably more than not doing anything is assuming it’s one thing, and then investing a lot of time and resources in that one thing and having it not produce results.

Because, I mean, you can’t grow your business, any business without marketing, because marketing, even referral word of mouth, that’s referral marketing. Like you people have to know you exist. They have to discover you. They have to know, like, and trust you to want to do business with you. Right? So if you’re not marketing yourself.

AUSTIN: And and like your business, you know, if you obviously plan on having a business for your entire life, maybe passing it along to your kids, you marketing never stops. It’s a continuous thing and it’s for the life of your business.

And I you know, you guys have radio background, so do I, and I sold radio for a while, and I would have to explain that to potential clients that like, you see Coca Cola commercials. Right.

Well, everyone on earth knows who Coca Cola is and you would think that they wouldn’t need to advertise, but they still do. Relentless. They spend billions of dollars on it because I would have people telling me like, oh, everyone in the community already knows who we are. You know, everyone already knows that we’re here.

And it’s like, all right, well, everybody knows that Coca Cola is a soda.

MATT: But yeah. And you get to a point where it’s like you need to be discovered and then you have to remind people that you exist. It’s just staying present in their lives. Yeah.

I mean, how many times have you like somebody, like, if I said to you like, hey, recommend the best burger joint in Omaha, and I give you one second to answer, you throw out something, probably Wendy’s, McDonald’s, Burger King, and then you would stop and like, well, wait a minute, that’s not the best burger like, but that was just the first thing that came to mind because they’re the ones who are in your mind. They’re the ones staying present.

AUSTIN: They got that real.

MATT: Estate, they got that real estate. And so yeah, I think, you know, marketing, it’s like your clothes, it’s going to evolve it. Not one action or one thing lasts forever. There is no such thing as set it and forget it.

People are bombarded with literally thousands of ads every single day, and let alone all the content that we consume.

The average American spends anywhere from 2 to 6 hours per day on average on social media alone. So just think about how much they are consuming and then how are you breaking through that noise, you know, how are you establishing the perception, even if it’s an accurate perception of what your business is right for these people.

So you can’t just set it, forget it. You can’t just sit there and like, you know, you can’t get high on the hopium drug and just hope this is going to work, you know? Yeah, everybody has hopium.

BEN: I’ve been doing this wrong this entire time. What’s your business? My cat tree store is I’m not doing it right. I’m not. I’ve just been.

MATT: You have a cat.

BEN: Tree store, I yeah, I build my own cat trees for cats to.

AUSTIN: Climb. So why is a cat tree important? Sell me a cat tree.

BEN: Because it’s extremely comfortable to sit on with you and your cat. It gives you.

AUSTIN: You perch on there.

BEN: It’s a human and cat cat tree.

MATT: Oh, see, you’ve.

BEN: Got the.

MATT: First. You’ve established a new category to be first in. That’s what you’ve.

BEN: Done. Now I just need to change the perception of what everybody thinks a cat tree is. Yeah, they think it’s just for a cat, but it really could be for a human too.

But that to that point with Trump’s a great example of this, of the perceptions. I mean, you say be honest there with Trump, it’s kind of the opposite of being honest. And he’s also the opposite of of somebody who doesn’t. He says he’s good at everything.

AUSTIN: Yeah. No.

BEN: And that’s and that. So that perception is you can change the perception. I think you can you can use the perception. To your advantage, but you can also manipulate people with that too.

And as a business, you have to decide what avenue do you want to take. And then also, as a marketing company, it’s extremely easy to take advantage of businesses.

MATT: Which most unfortunately do. I mean, we are surrounded by snake oil salesman types in the marketing industry because of those things. It is because that’s, you know, manipulation. It’s usually seen as a negative thing.

But that’s really what we’re all all we’re doing all the time.

That’s all perception is. We market ourselves every day. When I walk up with a smile and I shake your hand and I say, how are you doing? You look great today, Ben. I’m manipulating. I want you to. I want to have a good impression.

You’d have a good impression of me. I don’t really think you look good.

BEN: You say that every morning, I do. I do the highlight of my day.

AUSTIN: And now you know.

MATT: So now you.

AUSTIN: Know that it’s nothing but lies.

MATT: You know. And there’s also the with the politics, like all politics is, is all marketing, you know. And even though Trump you’re right like there are mistruths across the board with politics and Trump.

Trump is probably most notorious for this just blanket just wildly exaggerated statements. But that is the perception is that he’s just like sticking it to the to the man. That’s the image and the character he is crafted over the years.

Yeah. And so there is a truth to it. He stays consistent to his truth, even though all the things he’s saying maybe aren’t the truth. And the problem with politics,

people get in there and they they need marketing experts to come in and just tell them, like, quit arguing the facts because that does not nobody buys anything or makes any decision based on the facts. We use our our our feeling brain, not our thinking brain to make these decisions.

And when you are arguing that the facts somebody who has an emotional attachment, you know, be like, Ben, your cat has attacked you literally 12 times. You had to go to the emergency room because your cat bit him in the finger and they had to, like, do a whole like an.

BEN: Iv treatment for a while. Yeah. Cat teeth are full of nasty bacteria, dude.

AUSTIN: Cat teeth terrify me.

MATT: And and the wound seal shut afterwards. Yeah, but Ben is still with the cat. Why? Because he has an emotional attachment.

BEN: My grandma’s cat.

AUSTIN: Cat doesn’t have teeth anymore.

BEN: But it doesn’t. It lost 11 of them.

AUSTIN: You had a bull, Ben.

MATT: Pull them out.

AUSTIN: Just gums me now.

MATT: All right. Thanks for joining us here today on Midwest Mindset. The key takeaway here today just because you’re good at one thing does not mean you’re good at everything.

Just because Ben is good at building human cat trees does not mean that he’s good at building dog parks. Well.

BEN: You haven’t seen a dog park that I’ve made.

MATT: If you’re struggling with your marketing and you’re sick of social media, just stop and let us do it for you. With the easy box, you give us 30 minutes, we give you 30 days of content. It is marketing made easy.

Check out the link in the show notes here. Today of this episode we made that easy too. You can just click it.

All it requires is one finger. You don’t even have to use a finger. Matt. Use anybody. You can use any body part to click on the link right now.